Recipe for slow dry medium

edited January 2013 in Studio & Supplies
Hello, newbie here, finding my way around and starting to get myself organised for using TCM.

I've been a lurker for a couple of weeks and have followed links and surfed the net for info ..... Looking good so far, but the recipe for the slow dry medium here on the forum that a member posted has measurements in millilitres - the recipe of the old website supply list indicates 'parts'. This list answered a few of my questions, including brush recommendations, paint specifics, etc... link here www.thecardermethod.com/supplylist/

but I'm troubled by the quantities for the recipe..... in particular the Venice turpentine. Reason being is that VT is very dense and mineral spirits are much, much less dense which would make 50ml of VT weigh around 90grams.

Sorry for the ramble, it's late here in the UK, simple question should be "are the measurement in the recipe by volume or weight?"



Comments

  • All volume, make "parts" be whatever you want it to be.

    Welcome LindenH! :-)
  • Thanks for the responses. I've got all the ingredients apart from the clove oil and Venice turpentine. The clove oil is easy enough to get locally and the Venice turp is on it's way (ordered online). Whilst I was surfing for vt suppliers here in the UK, I noticed that the Shiva brand isn't available here but is also imitation vt, not the genuine stuff. I've gone for http://www.turnersartshop.co.uk/cornelissen-larch-venice-turpentine-60ml-4169-p.asp
    geniune larch venice turp but pricey at £12 (about $18) for 60ml.

    I decided against the large mason jars at this stage (still in the early stages of experimenting with the method) but have got some small, mini jam jars. I read elsewhere that some users of the Carder method use syringes to store their premixed five colours, which seems a good idea.

    Just a quick question about the mixed consistency.... should I be aiming for 'like ketchup' and BTW, what's the 'dropping off the stick' all about?

    Thanks in advance.
  • You'll see it in Marks video...can't remember if he made that one yet or not on the new site. Think of ketchup or stirring a can of house paint. You take a stick or kitchen knife and stir it and when you lift up the stick, the paint/ketchup slowly runs down to the end of the stick, a large drip starts to form on the end of the stick and when it gets large enough and heavy enough it drops off the stick...it doesn't just continually run off the stick. Not to worry....when you start to mix the slow dry medium (SDM) with your paint it's a 'forgiving' process. This is what I mean....when I first started I'd put a little SDM (teaspoon size) into the empty jar and swirl it around to coat the sides of the jar (paint will not stick so much). Then I put in a small (~40 ml) tube of paint and mix it with a small wooden stick (found in hobby shops or art and craft stores). I would slowly add SDM until I got to the point that the paint would slowly run down the stick, slowly forming a drop and finally drop off the stick. If the paint is to thick (not dripping or very slowly forming these drips) I add a little more SDM. If I get to much SDM and the consistency is too thin and the paint runs off the stick to rapidly, I ust add more paint. It's not an exact science but you'll quickly get a feel for the right consistency. Hope this helps....Mark will do a much better job of explaining this in the video or if he see your question.
  • Thanks Gary... that makes sense.
  • No need for syringes or spending time or energy worrying about storing your mixed paints.... they will stay fresh and usable for years in the small mason jars... thats one of the benefits of Mark's SDM.
    [Deleted User]
  • Linden H

    Here is the recipe in all kinds of fluid measurements.

    DELQ Recipe
    Parts Ingredient Ml Fluid Ounces (US) Fluid Ounces (UK)
    10 OMS 400 13.53 14.08
    5 Stand Oil 200 6.76 7.04
    5 Venice Turps 200 6.76 7.04
    2 Oil of Cloves 80 2.71 2.82
    1 Linseed Oil 40 1.35 1.41

    I can't tab the table properly but it is readable. This makes 920mls of DELQ.
    After two years I still have about 100mls left.

    Denis

    LindenH
  • Shirley is spot on - Small glass jars and good seals. The less air in the jar the longer the paint will be usable. The oxygen hardens the Venice Resin.

    Denis
  • I've got some some glass jars which I'll be using to start off with, but I'd seen that some people use syringes to keep their stock, medium mixed, basic colours in. No air in the syringe and the larger ones are airtight.

    Apparently, until the mid 18th century, paint was originally supplied in pig's bladders, then syringes, then in about 1780, the tin tube became available..... for those that are interested :)

    Not my set-up, but borrowed pic from elsewhere

    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
  • I tried the syringes and had a lot of trouble getting paint in and out, maybe mine were too small. It was like the plunger would be glued in place.
  • Right on Liz

    The rubber on disposable syringes deteriorates rapidly on contact with solvents.
    You might get a longer life from glass syringes.

    Denis
  • I'm definitely going with the mini jars, just need to eat the jam (jelly in US) :-j

    Maybe too small, but I'll see how I get on .... 37ml tube for size comparison

    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
  • Linden H

    These are just the ticket. Mix half a 37ml tube in each and top up with pigment and DELQ as you go. Keeps for years.

    Denis
  • Beware of plastic containers, some plastics will allow solvents to evaporate right through them so you are left with no mineral spirits in your paint. I know this from experience when I used some big plastic camping tubes designed for peanut butter etc. Within a month my paint had become very thick. This was about 25 years ago. I know they sell solvent in plastic containers, so there are plastics that do work.

    Those tiny jars are too small Linden, unless you plan on painting tiny little paintings. Just go for it, go buy some big jars and mix up the whole tube or even two tubes at once. It is a lot of trouble to mix up all that paint. It will stay good in the jar for a year or more.

    Go for it! And when you paint, do not be afraid to WASTE paint. I have seen many artists who try so hard to save paint, that it effects the quality of their work.
    studioaniaAnnetteJMikeO
  • I'm still at the experimental stage, Mark - so whilst they may be too small for long term use, I think they're going to be ok for my immediate needs. I don't paint large pieces and have been a 'sketch/underpaint/paint/multi-glaze' type of hobbyist painter for many years, so your method is a whole new prospect for me.

    I think the last time I did a still life was when I was still at school some 40 years ago... so a new method and still life painting is a challenge that I'm looking forward to.
    Mark_Carder
  • Just ordered all the ingredients for my first homemade batch of slow dry medium. Gotta grow up and make my own someday so might as well start now! :)
    VangiebhopaliAnnetteJ
  • Linden H

    Here is a pic of the plastic storage cups for keeping value strings.

    Denis
  • dencal said:

    Linden H

    Here is the recipe in all kinds of fluid measurements.

    DELQ Recipe
    Parts Ingredient Ml Fluid Ounces (US) Fluid Ounces (UK)
    10 OMS 400 13.53 14.08
    5 Stand Oil 200 6.76 7.04
    5 Venice Turps 200 6.76 7.04
    2 Oil of Cloves 80 2.71 2.82
    1 Linseed Oil 40 1.35 1.41

    I can't tab the table properly but it is readable. This makes 920mls of DELQ.
    After two years I still have about 100mls left.

    Denis

    Thanks Denis, I'm going to use tablespoon/teaspoon measures for my make-up. The reason I asked originally about volume or weight is because the scales I use have any option for mls & fl ozs...... which are only good for weighing liquids of a similar specific density - water, milk, etc, based on 1 ml of pure water at 4*C weighs 1 gram

    As the ingredients for Delq are much more dense than water, the weights don't 'marry' without some calculations. For example, one ml of linseed oil is 0.92gm and one ml of OMS is 0.76gm. I don't know the specific gravity of stand oil or venice turps, but they won't be any less than linseed. So if weighing the ingredients, the 10 parts of OMS, say 100 mls would weigh 76gms and the 5 parts of stand oil would weigh 46gms, as would the VT..... this gives 76gms OMS to 92gms oil. When the clove and linseed oils are added, I would guess it's going to be around the 75OMS / 95oil ratio, which is nowhere near the (roughly) 50/50 ratio in the recipe.

    ...... Hence my original query...... sad OCD case here :-S
    dencal said:

    Linden H

    Here is a pic of the plastic storage cups for keeping value strings.

    Denis

    Where abouts are you getting these small containers?
  • Just wondering if anybody has tried using Chroma Archival Classic Medium (Australian brand) as an alternative to DELQ/recipe... (http://www.chromaonline.com/media_library/images/archival_oils/layout/archival_classic_medium).

    Apparently, it "is made from flexible modified Stand Oil and takes about 5 days to dry. It suits the method of day-to-day, wet-in-wet blending, with alterations made by scraping off instead of overpainting. It can also be used as a final slow layer of glaze or paint on top of fast medium layers. (NB: do not use fast layers on top of slow ones.)" (Source: page 3 of archival_guide_to_oils_and_mediums.pdf from http://www.chromaonline.com/products/archival_oils)
  • LindenH said:

    I'm definitely going with the mini jars, just need to eat the jam (jelly in US) :-j

    Maybe too small, but I'll see how I get on .... 37ml tube for size comparison

    Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

    That made me hungry! =P~

    Actually, I don't know about the terminology in other countries, but jelly, jam, preserves, and marmalade are all different things here.
  • Vangie said:

    "Just wondering if anybody has tried using Chroma Archival Classic Medium (Australian brand) as an alternative to DELQ/recipe... (http://www.chromaonline.com/media_library/images/archival_oils/layout/archival_classic_medium).

    Apparently, it "is made from flexible modified Stand Oil and takes about 5 days to dry. It suits the method of day-to-day, wet-in-wet blending, with alterations made by scraping off instead of overpainting. It can also be used as a final slow layer of glaze or paint on top of fast medium layers. (NB: do not use fast layers on top of slow ones.)" (Source: page 3 of archival_guide_to_oils_and_mediums.pdf from http://www.chromaonline.com/products/archival_oils)"

    Just wondering if anybody's tried this...

    :-?
  • I nominate Vangie as the drawmixpaint member to test CACM and provide a report to the Forum

    Denis
  • Yikes, Denis... I've actually got this medium but never used it. I'll see what I can do, unless somebody else has tried it...
  • Vangie, did you try the Archival Classic medium?
  • LittleSister
    No, I haven't. :(
    Been caught up with too many other things. Also been busy preparing my still life settings (lots to choose from now, but very time-consuming going through the whole process). I've just bought 200ml of oil paints in all the prescribed 5 colours, but don't have enough Oil of Cloves to mix more of Mark's 'DELQ' SDM... I've ordered some from iHerb and just waiting for delivery.
    So, I will definitely test the ACM very soon, while waiting for the ooc to arrive, and will report here.
  • Denis
    Won't they melt with the SDM?
    Also can you safely store them (wrapped in foil & put in zip lock bags) in the freezer without any worry of contaminating frozen food?
    Ta.
  • VangieVangie -
    edited December 2012
    Mark
    You would most likely mix a big batch of oil paint, so I thought I'd ask you if I have to be precise with the number of teaspoons of SDM that I would have to mix with a 200ml of oil paint tube.

    Based on 4 teaspoons of SDM per 37ml oil paint tube, and
    1 US teaspoon = 4.92892159 millilitres,
    would I then need 21.62 teaspoons (or 106.6 ml) for a 200ml tube of oil paint? Almost 1:2 ratio.

    I understand that the SDM would need to have a ketchup consistency, but I just want to make sure that I have enough SDM to mix all of my 5 x 200 ml oil paint.

    I could probably mix only half of it or less, but the next challenge would be to measure the exact paint quantity, eg 74ml or 111ml, etc. So I thought if I just mixed the lot, then I would have less hassle.

    Sorry if my question sounds stupid.
  • Vangie said:

    Denis
    Won't they melt with the SDM?

    Vangie

    I've stored value steps/strings in these little cups for months i.e. premixing and for the duration of a big canvas with later reworks and touch ups etc. There is no alteration of the plastic surface or softening of the material. Seems to be good for about two or three months before the paint thickens beyond use. I usually then just leave the lid off until hard and throw in the bin.

    Denis
    Vangie
  • Vangie said:

    Denis
    Also can you safely store them (wrapped in foil & put in zip lock bags) in the freezer without any worry of contaminating frozen food?

    Do you store them in the freezer, Denis?
  • dencaldencal -
    edited December 2012
    Vangie

    I haven't found any need to do so for the small value steps.
    I used to keep the DELQ'd basic colors in the fridge but since I have been using the small jam/jelly jars I found that the seal and unused volume in the jar is more important than the storage temperature.

    Denis
    Vangie
  • Vangie said:

    Mark
    You would most likely mix a big batch of oil paint, so I thought I'd ask you if I have to be precise with the number of teaspoons of SDM that I would have to mix with a 200ml of oil paint tube.

    Based on 4 teaspoons of SDM per 37ml oil paint tube, and
    1 US teaspoon = 4.92892159 millilitres,
    would I then need 21.62 teaspoons (or 106.6 ml) for a 200ml tube of oil paint? Almost 1:2 ratio.

    I understand that the SDM would need to have a ketchup consistency, but I just want to make sure that I have enough SDM to mix all of my 5 x 200 ml oil paint.

    I could probably mix only half of it or less, but the next challenge would be to measure the exact paint quantity, eg 74ml or 111ml, etc. So I thought if I just mixed the lot, then I would have less hassle.

    Sorry if my question sounds stupid.

    Mark, I think you've answered my question indirectly in another thread Mixing Paint w/ Medium started by CharleyBoy. You wrote:

    "It varies GREATLY from one color to another. Get some Heinz Tomato Ketchup, mix your paint to match viscosity. But start by mixing them thick, let the paint sit in the the closed jar over night. Then add more medium the next day if necessary. Some of the colors thicken over night, others get thinner. The yellow is the worst, mix that one extra thick to start, overnight it will become far more runny. This has nothing to do with the paint actually drying, just a thinning or thickening effect that stops after a few hours."

    Message I get: It's not an exact science!!! Gotcha, Mark!!! So, I'll experiment & start out with 1:2 ratio, except for the yellow which I'll mix with less SDM to start with, then check them all out the next day and add if/as necessary. Must also remember to mix the extra Oil of Cloves for the Burnt Umber prior to mixing in SDM, as well as the extra Linseed Oil for the Titanium White prior to mixing in SDM. I'm so much less stressed out now (phew!) :-bd
  • I'm waiting for the ingredients I've ordered and excited to get started! Question: with the slow drying medium, how long does it take a paint to oxidize to the touch so that it feels dry?
  • Hello Sue

    Welcome to the Forum.

    Burnt umber is touch dry in 3-4 days
    Ultramarine blue and alizarin crimson in about 5-6 days.
    Cadmium yellow is touch dry in about ten days, though multiple coats or thick blobs can take a couple of weeks.

    Mixtures of hues are touch dry in the drying time of the slowest component.
    Leave it for six months before you varnish.
    Warm, dry storage will hasten the drying process.

    If you are generous with your paint strokes, or live in a cool or humid environment the times will lengthen.

    Denis
  • Hi there everyone. New member from the UK here. Firstly I would like to thank you Mark for being such an inspiration...your work and teaching are truly first class. If I had the money I would be attending your lessons in Austin in a jiffy. I am actually a digital artist by trade and have not picked up a real brush for about 10 years. My interests have shifted over the last year or so and I have recently bought all the equipment to attack the canvas once again. Your tutorials were the tipping point for deciding to go with oils (I always used to paint with acrylic). It will be like starting anew and I cannot wait. :)

    Right, onto the thread-relevant question! I love your method of premixing paint into jars - very clever. I was wondering if you could tell me if these jars would be too big or too small? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jarden-00518-Pint-Mouth-Canning/dp/B000VDYUJI/ref=pd_sim_kh_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=14GWS6EKG3RZZ9EZSN8F

    Also, I have a slightly off topic question which has bugged me for ages and I cannot seem to find an answer. Before the invention of the camera, how did artists paint accurate colours/values for a certain time of day, or correct proportions and values of, say, a bustling market or packed theatre where people were not standing still. I will use a piece by one of my favourite artists, Jean Leon Gerome, as an example: http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/display_image.php?id=153030

    The mind boggles at how he achieved such accuracy in such a detailed piece.

    Many thanks!
  • Jeff_R

    Welcome to the DMP Forum.

    A pint jar is way too big, except if you are in the pub.
    About 4oz (baby food jar) is right for storing your W&N colors with SDM.
    A 1oz sealable plastic cup (art/craft stores) is great for premixed values, numbered 1 to 9.
    Paint from the cup or deploy on the palette.

    A pint jar has too much air and will prematurely polymerize the paint.
    My 4 and 1 oz jars/cups have useable paint I mixed 3 or four years ago.

    I suggest Gerome has masterfully discriminated his values and flow of light in this beautiful painting. However, unless we were there, or are able to compare with a professional photograph, how can we say anything about the accuracy? His technique here is to maximize the saturation of the subjects color and value range in a raking overhead light and against a drab background.

    Denis
  • that's great thanks Denis.

    I actually found the smaller ones that Mark uses himself so will buy some of those. I wish I lived in the states as all this stuff is so much cheaper and more readily available than here in the UK. If anyone could recommend a cheap supply source for the UK then I would really appreciate a link.

    Sorry maybe my point was a little confusing about Gerome...and is a little difficult to explain. I guess what I meant to ask is - how did these amazing painters record the values and movement of very intricate pieces, especially pieces which have a great amount of movement where the subject matter and lighting (e.g. magic hour) is only within frame for a short period? Did they do a quick sketch with basic colours before heading back to their studio and guess the details they missed? Surely they did not paint these absurdly realistic tones/values without reference? How they transfer(ed) so much detail and realism from an 'action shot' onto a canvas, and without photo reference, is baffling to me.
  • Stunning Gerone painting. I've often wondered myself.
    My only guesses are;
    -Sketch the empty room and immovable objects first
    -Color it the same time every day.
    -Add the figures one at a time

    I think people had more time back in the old days.

    I'm only guessing.
    greendl
  • @jeff-R I live in Ireland. Baby food jars are great, or little jars with metal closing clips , you can buy them in any supermarket or shop that sells household dishes etc. Eg Homebase, costs about £1.50 hope this helps :)
  • @jeff_R http://www.barnitts.co.uk/products/preserving-jam-chutney-making.html
    or http://www.preserveshop.co.uk/glass-jam-jars/mason-jars
    Hope these are helpful.

    Could someone please explain the amount of each medium i have to put in to the recipe , sadly i really struggled at school and unfortunately i really don`t understand the"parts" thing, Could i use a eye dropper and put 10 drops(10 parts) or am i completely wrong , i really need help please somebody.
  • lloydy

    The parts idea is that every part is an equal quantity. So if you call an ounce of milk one part and to want to mix the milk equally with water, then you would add one ounce of water. If on the other hand you add ten ounces of water then you have used one part of milk and ten parts of water

    Attached is a file with the SDM fluid quantities:

    Denis

  • @dencal Thankyou very much for the file and the explanation :) think i will ask my wife to calculate the parts lol. I understand it ish ;p
  • ahhh so i can use an eyedropper then because it sounds the same,
    10 drops of OMS
    5 drops of stand oil
    1 drop of refined and so on ?
  • oops sorry not drops but full tube thing ^^ not sure what its called
    dencal
  • lloydy

    That's the idea. Those quantities will give you about a liter of SDM.

    Start with the stuff you have the least amount of. Say you only have 100ml of VT.
    Then use 100ml of stand oil and 200ml of OMS along with 40 ml of cloves and 20ml linseed. This will mix nearly half a liter of SDM.

    It's all about getting the right proportion.

    Denis


  • AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i get it now . Thankyou very much Denis.
    Pfffft if my Math teacher could see me now ^^
    dencal
  • JimmyJimmy -
    edited December 2014
    LindenH asked, "are the measurement in the (SDM) recipe by volume or weight?"

    Mark Carder answered: "All volume, make "parts" be whatever you want it to be. "

    I messed up and mixed the recipe using weight. I also started with the largest portion, ten parts odorless mineral spirits. I should have started with the smallest, 2 parts clove oil as @dencal suggests above.

    To make matters worse, I used one ounce of weight instead of one fluid ounce for "part". When I realized I only had one fluid ounce of clove oil I checked the forum and found this thread.

    I guess-corrected by removing 8 oz. (one cup) of odorless mineral spirits from off the top of the unshaken, un-stirred mixture. The OMS floated to the top. It's lighter and almost clear. To correct my mistake I approximated that ten ounces by weight of OMS is about 16 fluid ounces or liquid volume.

    http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/60749.html

    May I suggest, adding a note to the recipe, "parts in volume not weight"?

    Thank you.
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