Color Wheel - My Old Color Palette - My New Primary Red - New Update

edited December 2020 in Color Mixing

 Just having fun with many colors in my studio, 2 days to do this, ala prima. This is my present palette, today's modern colors & has been for about a year now. My new choice for yellow here is named "Chrome Yellow Medium", it was very much in use before cadmium yellow was invented, I needed to adjust the value using white to be same as cadmium yellow pale.

The outer circle consists of 3 primaries, alizarin crimson, chrome yellow medium, ultramarine blue, plus secondary & tertiary colors.
The 2nd inner color wheel consists of semi-neutral colors.
The 3rd inner color wheel consists of neutral colors.

This is about to change eventually to my using an "old world color palette"?, I'm now working on this color wheel.


  • Can you give us the pigments for these colours? Alizarin crimson could be PR83 or one of the more lightfast replacements like PR177. Chrome Yellow Medium tends to be a mix of modern pigments now..
  • edited November 2020
    The above colors consist of; Chrome Yellow Medium PY34 Lead chromate, Alizarin Crimson PR83, Ultramarine Blue Deep PB29.

    My new colors not shown here are; Chrome Yellow Medium PY34 Lead chromate, Series 4, Perm. A
                                                                    Alizarin Crimson PR83 1,2 dihydroxyanthraqui none, series 4 lightfastness III                                                                            Ultramarine Blue PB29 Sodium alumina-sulphosilicate, series 2, lightfastness I

  • Ok, so PY34 should be lightfast, but very toxic. PB29 is fine, and PR83 is not toxic, but is not lightfast and will fade away.

    Just be aware of this..
  • In this case PY34 is not so toxic at all according to this manufacturer, but good to be aware and take proper precautions. I understand about the blue not being lightfast and will fade, I wonder if a different manufacturer produces one that can be better relied on, maybe M.H?
  • The blue (PB29) is fine. It's the Red (PR83) that is fugitive, it's the nature of the pigment unfortunately, not due to the manufacturing process.
  • Thank you so much, No worries, I'm simply going to continue enjoying oil painting and enjoy what comes of it & have some fun! Lol!
     This is a very difficult time of course, but some of us are having fun and producing truly amazing results. Acrylic painting in Canada is huge with truly great works in realism, watercolor is quite popular as well. Oil painting isn't quite as widely practiced but what is happening is quite exciting to see and to learn from. In the end it's great to come back to the studio & resume enjoying my own painting, and I have learned such a great deal from coming here to continue to put into practice to make it possible.
     The color wheels serve as efficient visual reference to the wide range of colors available to me in my studio from this basic palette and as an aid in visualizing more accurately and creating more effective extensions of these colors beyond the basic, and arrive at mixing these colors on my palette more quickly. 
  • edited November 2020
     I think that I may have found an answer to Red PR83 being fugitive. My answer is Red (quinacridone) PV19.
  • Yes, PV19, PR122 are the main magenta leaning red pigments used in a 3 colour primary system. PR177, PR264 are more of a PR83 replacement so darker and not so blue leaning.
  • A new one is available, named Tuscan Red, Series 4, Permance-A, semi-transparent, in linseed oil. It is made up of the following pigments; PR101, PW25, PR83, at quite a reasonable price as well. The similarity between PR83 & Tuscan Red in hue and in depth of color is quite remarkable.

     Thank you!
  • I wouldn't touch it, even if it's only a small amount of PR83, it's just not lightfast. It's OK in masstone, but fades in tints:

  • That's a very good point! I was questioning this myself, won't go near it. Thanks once again! The end. 👍🤩
  • edited November 2020

     I also need this for reference to complete a painting I'm now working on, for those who are familiar, this is for the lion & shield painting, this is breaking away from the photograph & painting the painting.
     I didn't quite get the color wheel right in the 1st round, so I'm redoing it, and got it much better so far. I'm presently mixing the remaining neutral colors from the 3 primary neutrals that I already mixed, and then these get painted in. There will be 36 clear colors total here when completed. This is a great way to avoid mixing mud.
    Btw, I'm also sharing, demonstrating this process with another group.

    Last note, I've adjusted the deeper colors in the wheel by adding a little tw so that the colors would show clearly, if I didn't do so these would have shown up as just about black.
  • edited December 2020

     This is it for this exercise, it looks really great on the easel, a good photo here and I'm really quite satisfied with it. I have a tube of quinacridone rose no. 311 PV19 and lead alkyd oil gesso coming within a few days for 25x 5"x 7" white birch panels which are already prepared with 4 coats of sandable hard gesso. I'm also modifying one of my old easels which is more like a drafting table, transforming it into something more suitable for oil painting, I'll show before & after photos when I'm ready.
     Looking forward, stay strong & safe, get plenty of rest when you can!
  • edited December 2020
     Below on the top is stained canvas, the bottom is glass palette, The color on the right is my new color PV19 added, also my new primary color RED. The color on the left is PR83. Looks like a game changer. This calls for yet another new color wheel for my studio, but not right now, I'm busy painting something & nearly done. Thanks for looking.

  • What is pv19 made from?  What is the colorfastness?  Can you post an image comparing it to pyrrole red?
  • I think it's this, @GTO: Quinacridone Violet (PV19).  :) 
  • edited December 2020
    There are different types of PV19, Rose, Red and Violet shades (due to the crystalline structure). They are all Quinacridone pigments which have very good lightfastness. 

    Rose is often used as a purple leaning colour in student grades where PR122 isn't often available. It is light valued and a strong rose colour. Red is not seen so often but is more of a general purpose mixing red.

    Violet is a dark valued violet-red and is possibly too dark as a main red, but when tinted it shifts dramatically towards violet (actually more than PR122)

    Here's something I did some time ago for colours and their shift when tinted with white where you can see what I mean:

  • edited December 2020
    I don't have pyrrole red in my palette to compare, but good question.

    Thanks @Richard_P for clearing this up, this is great.

    I have Quinacridone Rose No.311 Series 3, PV19 in linseed oil that is labeled excellent lightfastness.
     I have done a bit of researching and found same as above as Richard_P provided. This is the only one that I know of to date that really suits my palette. Although I have yet to check on Langridge brand that are recently available here! to find what they may have available. It would be nice to get a deeper red one, I found the violet version contained too much blue for my present taste, I can adjust my rose on my palette to my preferences.
     Btw I have 30 empty paint tubes on the way, so getting ready for more (paint)tubing in the near future, once again. 

    Langridge has PV19 available in red, and they also have it in crimson as PV19 with PR179(maroon), both listed in Series 4, excellent lightfastness, PV19 red is best here. These are now available where I live.
  • The pyrolle red looks more red, less blue.  Maybe that’s why mark chose it.
  • edited December 2020
    I agree @GTO this also works better in portraiture & figure work. This is why I prefer the Langridge PV19 Quinacridone Red because there is no blue in it, and it is deeper red than the rose pigment but not quite as dark as the alizarin crimson.
  • edited December 2020
    I can recommend the Langridge paints, @Forgiveness. I started using them because when I first started painting Geneva paints weren't available in Australia. I use Quinacridone Crimson for my deepest red and mix it with yellow and/or white for lighter shades of red. You can also mix it with Phthalo Green to make an intense black.  I use Cadmium for really bright yellows, reds and oranges.  :)

    @Richard_P. you diagram is very good.  :)
  • After even further research into this, I will purchase Quinacridone Crimson & I will be sure to purchase Phthalo Green to go with this. This means that my blacks mixed from these 2 will be intense ok, yet transparent. I can live with this, I think.

    With this mix for black, would I still be able to vary this black, ie; blue black, red black, green black, etc.?
  • Yes, @Forgiveness. You can add Ultramarine to get a bluish black. Or you could use black made from just Ultramarine and Burnt Umber. I don't use Ivory Black or Carbon Black in landscapes because they look dead and deaden colours mixed with them. The chromatic blacks I've described don't have this problem. 
  • Thank you, I don't use ivory & carbon black, except for when using the Zorn palette. Those chromatic blacks are great.
  • As it turns out I can't get Langridge oil paint here as yet. So I found Williamsburg handmade in linseed oil, Pyrelene Crimson PR179, expensive and hard to get. I can mix this with Quinacridone Rose PV19, and this will do it for me. Thoughts?
  • PR179 is half way between an Iron Oxide and a Quinacridone in terms of Chroma. It's quite a nice colour but you could also try mixing PV19 or PR122 with an Iron Oxide (PR101). It gets a lovely muted red with a purplish tint.
  • I like the iron oxide PR101 & I have some coming. Hopefully I'll be set up well for the rest of  the winter. Thanks again!
  • edited December 2020
    Just a quick demo here:

    Top Left; PR83 (to demonstrate the difference shown bellow)), Top Right; PR101,

    Middle is quinacridone "rose" PV19 +mixed with PR101 on the left,

    Bottom; quinacridone "red" PV19 +mixed with PR101on the left. This mix comes closest to PR83 in hue.
    Note, this brand of PR101 is the thickest textured oil paint ever, it is hard, I love it!

  • And this is what it looks like in relation to my old color palette.

  • Hard to tell how it compares without mixing with other hues with a little white. Are you going to try that next?
  • edited December 2020
    Yes I will be doing 2 more full color wheels, they work great for reference in the studio, but not right away.
     I'm waiting for my new empty tubes to arrive (any day soon), for yet another tubing session for a week (to be scheduled). I also have 2 paintings to finish, 1 only a couple of hours left to do on it & ready for posting. And I would like to complete the lion statue painting, it is close to complete. With the above going on, I will also be completing my panels for oil painting with lead oil ground, so I have to be careful doing this & also not contaminate my clothes. 33x 5"x 7" panels total; 16 panels need to finish with 4 coats acrylic gesso + oil lead ground. 10 panels need lead oil ground. 7x 5"x 7" & 2x 8"x 10" panels are ready for painting on.
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