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Help!!!!

I don't know what it is, incompetence, lack of ability, or whatever. What do you guys think I`m doing wrong. I definitely have to slow down, this took one day, thought it should have taken a week. Not use to failure. Appreciate your feedback. Thanks
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Comments

  • Hi Billj, if you'd also put up a reference picture it would help us to understand better
    Thanks
    [Deleted User]
  • You have given the tree and the bird no three dimensionality, no depth to their shape. They are represented as 2 dimensions, flat. Is this your intention? I don't want to offer criticism until I know what you are trying to achieve. Why not post a picture that is close to what you want yours to look like and then we can help you with suggestions. Or, are you copying a photo? Post a picture of that as a guide of where you want to go. I don't want to assume you are trying to achieve one style if you are going for another. Don't knock painting fast - some of us slowpokes would love to be able to paint fast.
  • Niharikag; There is no picture it`s in my head, ( that's scary)
    Grandma; I want it to look lifelike. How do I get the three dimension look in this painting. I understand shading to give the three dimension look, like a ball, a body, street seen, this tree covers the whole canvas, do you think I should have darkened the edges/ sides of the tree? I`m missing whatever it is. Thanks
  • You have one side of the tree and both sides of the tree limbs. Shade those sides just like you would anything else, a ball, a cube, anything. Your bird needs shading or modeling so that it looks life like. I would advise that you sketch your bird on paper in terms of a ball for the head, a cylinder for the body, etc. then shade those parts until they become 3D. When your sketch looks right, shade your painting. You have some shading on your painting now. It isn't enough. Get a reference photo of a tree and one of a bird and check your shading against that as a guide. You need to shade so that you not only turn the edges from flat to round, but create texture - bark and feathers. You can do it. You have good color now. You're half way home.
    jcdr
  • Billj

    My suggestion is to get some photo references from the net of something you like.

    With nothing more than a few pencils, a tortillion and a putty eraser, or if you prefer a piece of charcoal, and draw. Draw for values not detail.

    This is the best way to train your eye to look for depth and modeling in shapes.
    Good painting has little to do with color and everything to do with values.

    Spend a few weeks or months at fivepencilmethod.com and see how Darrel Tank makes a face come alive with a pencil.

    http://www.fivepencilmethod.com/?gclid=CP_szJmz_rYCFcE3pgodKGsApg

    His portraiture DVDs are gold.

    Denis

  • Grandma; I agree with you about the tree limbs and the tree trunk, I guess I`m too close to the forest to see the tree. I have a photo of the bird and they look artificial, their color is unbelievable, one color stops and the other color begins no blending. I use to breed them ( Gouldian Finches ) just beautiful.

    dencal; thanks for the feedback, and I agree, as far as the pencil goes I`m not having too much trouble with it , (see enclosed photo of my work. ) I will check out David Tank. I definitely have to put in more hours. Thanks guys.
  • dencaldencal -
    edited May 2013
  • Billj

    Even the brightest and gaudiest Gouldian Finch has light variation and texture.
    Count the values in the yellow, blue and purple.

    Denis

  • dencal; that`s a nice picture, Your both right, I`ll get on those changes and get back to you. I guess stepping back and look at what I`m doing is a big part of the answer. because I agree with all that you suggested I`m just not looking at what I`m doing. When I sit down I don`t stop for 5 or 6 hrs or more. got to break that habit of making a delivery date.By the way do you see my version of a Bubble Bee. ;) Thank again I appreciate all your effort.
  • dencaldencal -
    edited May 2013
    Billj

    Yes! The bumble bee is about half way up from the spider towards the bird's legs on the LHS.
  • tjstjs -
    edited May 2013
    BillJ I read that this was from your imagination. THis would be so hard to do and I think you did great!!!

    What artist work do you wish to paint like? That will answer a lot of your questions. Cause I think we all sort of judge our work with what we each have seen that we like and when we feel our work misses? A lot of times it's easier to answer your own questions by comparing it to someone's work you admire.

    Everyone has different tastes and there are so many different styles out there. Some artists hit just about every value/color, others condense values, whereas other either bump up the chroma or delute it and then there are the Naturalists painters (I think Mark falls into this category - just guessing) who strive for colors that are more natural.

    Second, if you can't work from life (still life cause I know those birds won't stay still :) ) then pick a photo to work from and JOIN us at the "No Blending Challenge". It's a wonderful way to start. And go slow. The slower you go the more you learn.

    But for just starting out and painting this from your imagination? I think it's fantastic!

    :-c
  • TSJ; I think Morgan Dunaway is great.
  • mnsrc; you gave me an artist who painted Children's portraits. lost the name. Don`t know how to reach you. Thanks
  • Bill - my user name has changed. I will try to find the info and get back to you.
  • Grandma, dencal, tjs, niharikag. I made some changes,what do you think so far ? Changes don't show much on PC.
  • SInce you are imagining this, it will be easier if you imagine that your light changes the direction it comes from a bit. Right now it seems to be coming mostly from above. Try moving the light (sun?) a little to the left. That way you can create shadows on your tree trunk under and to the right of your branches. This will move your branches out from the tree trunk and create space between the branches and the main trunk. Since the trunk is a middle value of brown, make your shadows a darker value of brown with perhaps a bit of purple in them. The little branch growing up needs to grow in about the same shade of bark as the rest of the tree and now it looks a little bit greyer. Where it is in front of the sky you can make it even a little bit darker for contrast sake. It is a bit lost against the sky. Where is your bird sitting? If it is inside the hole, the hole needs to shade it much more showing the shape of the hole with the shadow. If the bird's body extends outside the hole it needs to cast a shadow on the tree trunk showing the shape of the bird, or at least part of it such as the tail.

    You have definitely improved your picture and are going in the right direction. Your little bumble bee needs to cast a shadow and he needs his body to be 3D also. This is a very fun picture. with lots of bright color. You need your shadows to be darker to add contrast to help show those bright colors. When you get the total 3D effect this will just pop your eyes out!!!!!!! I can hardly wait to see it. This is a really great picture.
  • @Shirley, Bill's picture isn't a copy of a real life version or a copy of a photo and Mark's method is entirely about copying. How can he apply the method now? However, Bill, I do think that if you practiced copying the picture of the bird that Denis put up using Mark's method it would help you when you wanted to paint birds from your creative initiative. Once you copied a bird from a photo that looked completely 3D and understood how you did it, then you could always paint a bird that looked completely real whenever you wanted to without a photo to look at. You just need to understand the technique. The same is true with bark. You can paint bark that will make you think you'll scratch your hand if you touch the painting = just learn the technique. I'm sure if you do it once you can do it again and again whenever you want.
  • @Grandma .. Tanya I read the post and understand that Bill was working from his own creative mind... I in no suggested he could make adjustment to this painting. I suggested he use it as a learning experience and begin a new painting following the method so he could learn.
    Bill I do applaud your efforts... but if you want your work to look "life like" as you stated ... I know from experience you will be able to achieve that look if you follow Mark's teachings. Please take my suggestions in the spirit they are offered... I would like nothing more than to see you be successful in you art journey!
    tjsmariebjcdr
  • Well done,is so hard to paint from your imagination,well done=D>
  • edited May 2013
    I completely agree with @shirley_seput This forum is a great resource from which people can get guidance and advice on improving their paintings. It is largely dedicated to a specific method that Mark has devised and countless success stories are displayed here by people who have worked to learn the method. The method involves closely checking colors against either a photograph or against real life objects. If you come asking for help on a painting and immediately say that the painting is from imagination then you should expect to hear people pointing out that you are not using even the most rudimentary elements of the method that is the basis for the forum. It's analogous to attending a pottery class but refusing to use the potter's wheel and then asking why your bowl is lumpy and out of round. (I'm not "snipping" at Bill or anyone else, I just think the best advice for him is the advice that Shirley gave him, which is "use the method")
    Garymarieb
  • If there is only room for people who want to copy and use Mark's method then that may eliminate many of us. There are many who aren't using Mark's method or are using his method part of the time or using just part of his method.
  • edited May 2013
    @Grandma I'm not implying that there is no room for other ideas on this forum. I am saying that for a person who is directly asking for help on technique by titling his post "HELP!", a good place to start giving him advice is to refer him to the method on which the forum is based.

    Mark's method is specifically designed as a learning tool for people to learn realism. Bill is specifically asking how to give his paintings a more lifelike appearance. I have a hard time understanding how referring Bill to the specifics of the method is the wrong advice.
    tjsmariebAZPainterjcdr
  • I misunderstood you.
    marieb
  • “ Use the Method”
    First I want to apologize if I offended anyone by my actions.
    I found Mark Carter on line not that long ago, it sounded like a good idea so I bought the tapes and listened to them and anything that was offered on YouTube by Mark many times. “The Method” taught me how to setup my studio, what supplies I needed, Brushes, paints, canvas, shadow box, lights, all of this I did. “The Method”taught me how to mix paints in steps which I did. I believe that Mark said somewhere in the tapes to follow all the steps and techniques he teaches, but to add your own ideas and develop your own techniques, not to just follow him blindly. Because I paint from my imagination does not mean I don’t follow “ the method” because I didn’t copy something I was looking at in a photograph or a scene. If all the paintings were from photos still lifes, or models the world would be missing many of the great works of art that fill our museums.
    If I wanted to paint a pottery class with many students, potters wheels and bowls of many different colors and shapes, but I didn’t have a photo or the class itself to copy from, should I not try to paint it? I know what people, potters wheels, bowls, and the inside of a classroom looks like. If I mix my colors in steps the way I was taught to what I think the colors should be, and I feel its not right and “I come asking” for feedback, why is that not following “the method”? Well I rambled on long enough, my command of English without reaching collage isn’t very good but I think I managed to get my point across. I was a successful wood carver/sculptor for the past 30 years. Check out my web page, williamjoanitis.com I am changing the site, Internet Explorer is the only one picking it up so far , after the change others slow. Thanks again for all your advise. Again sorry if I made waves.
  • edited May 2013
    @Grandma No problem.


    @billj Don't worry, there is nothing wrong with your question and there is nothing offensive in any of your posts.

    A very large portion of Mark's method is based on matching colors. If you are doing a painting from your imagination, you cannot match colors in the physical fashion that Mark teaches. You asked how to make your paintings more lifelike. I am suggesting that the thing you could do to accomplish that is to work from a photo or from a real physical object (at least to start with) as Mark does in all the tutorials he has posted. While working from imagination is a fine endeavor, I believe it is far more difficult to do and might be better left for when you have had several successes with using a color checker against a non-imaginary subject. This is just my advice, you can take it for what it's worth. I offer it hoping only that you can achieve your goals.
    tjsRonnaAZPainter
  • opnwyder; Thank you for your input.
    Grandma: Your the best. ^:)^
    Mark said " Have Fun"
  • Bill,
    (I wrote this right after your 10 am post but wasn't able to post till now). Decided to post even though additional comments were added since that time, as my desire is to offer encouragement to you. Please note I am very new to this also and have completed only 2 small 8x10" pieces using Mark's workflow. I have a long way to go but am happy with the 2 beginner pieces I painted. Anyway here is what I wrote this a.m.

    Been reading this discussion with interest and decided to throw my 2¢ in. I agree with Martin, I don't think you made waves. And I don't think you offended anyone.

    As I read through the posts I see the forum members who responded to your request for help, really trying to help you. Niharikag and Grandma tactfully attempted to discern what was causing your frustration and where you were trying to go with your work. When you explained that you wanted it to look lifelike, experienced members of the forum all offered their best advice. Some on how to achieve your goal in the piece you posted, and others on how to develop your eye when working in oils so you could achieve your stated goal in future works.

    I think its great that you followed Mark's recommendations and that you also want to paint from your imagination. It's apparent from your excellent work in other media that you're seeing volume and value shifts. I believe you are only a breath away from a leap to seeing in oils what you are already seeing when you work in other media. So, if you would consider doing just one or two small still life pieces following Mark's workflow from start to finish I believe it will all just click! Then you will be free to run with all those wonderful images in your mind that are clamoring to get on canvas and your frustrations will be greatly diminished.

    Please don't give up achieving your goals in this media. I have really liked what I have seen of your work so far and believe you can get where you want to be.
    Best,
    Cindy :)
    opnwyderRonna
  • Cin_D; Thank you very much for your kind words and your recommendations. I will paint several more paintings going strictly by the book and I`m sure you and the others that answered my call are correct in your suggestions on how I should proceed. Actually the first painting I posted is a portrait of my wife following the carder method. and that was the first painting I did in 30 years. Not bad for the first, but as time goes by and I gather bits and pieces of information and the feedback I get from the forum I can see that the painting needs a lot more work that I didn`t see when I painted it.

    I don't give up, I get too much enjoyment out of creating art weather it is good or not so good, it give me a place to lock out the rest of the world and forget about any inconveniences I may have. Thanks again everyone, I`ll be waiting to se your next paintings and gaining more knowledge from them.
    Cin_Dopnwydertjscynthiagwilson
  • I like your sculptures; the variety of sizes from the chess set to the life size tree. Your bas relief sculpture for Belmont Park has tremendous vitality and life; I imagine it has been a hit with everyone who has seen it. In fact, I can't imagine anyone not liking the sculptures that you make. You don't need to find a photo to copy to get the life like result you are wanting - just look at the shadows on your own sculptures. Most of them were photographed in light that makes the shadows complement the modeling and complete the 3D effect. You can reference your own work. I think you understand everything, you are just hesitant and that's understandable. A sculpturer can't go hog wild with a chisel but must go small bit by bit. With your paint you can go more bold and faster because, unlike the chisel, you can add it back. The paint isn't subtractive. Too much shadow, add light. Too much light, add shadow. Paint is forgiving where the chisel isn't. Have fun, you're good. While you are working on other pictures, don't totally neglect your bird. I think it's your fun, enjoyment piece.
    Cin_D
  • GaryGary -
    edited May 2013
    Bill, you've made a wonderful start in your painting, your participation in the forum is great and appreciated, your questions and this thread are right on and very appropriate! Keep it up....I look forward to seeing more not less from you. :-bd

    I know what a outstanding and diverse sculptor you are having seen the wonderful pictures you sent to me. I mention this because that experience is something unique to you, something that is part of you, something I'll never have nor will it ever fuel my imagination in the special way it fuels yours. What I saw in your first painting was this unique experience guiding not only your mind but your brush. Use this unique perspective and the talent that has grown from it. Continue to bring it to your paintings. None of us really paint 'realism'....it's all representational to various degrees. Marks methods/suggestions are great and will help you achieve whatever level of 'realism' you want by providing a solid foundation from which to grow. If you know what you eventually want (your goals) then there are lots of roads to get you there by building on this foundation. Each of us will have a different journey even if we all start from the same foundation. The important point is that we do have this foundation that Mark has provided to start the journey. Without the foundation, this would just be a random walk without direction or purpose. Let me encourage you to acknowledge your unique perspective as it relates to painting, to embrace it and to keep it as a big part of your journey as you first build your foundation and then move forward - I can see it already in this painting. It is part of your 'signature style' and a very special style it is! :)
    Cin_Dtjscynthiagwilson
  • Grandma; Here's some different views of the "life size tree" ;):))
  • billj said:

    “ Use the Method”
    First I want to apologize if I offended anyone by my actions.
    I found Mark Carter on line not that long ago, it sounded like a good idea so I bought the tapes and listened to them and anything that was offered on YouTube by Mark many times. “The Method” taught me how to setup my studio, what supplies I needed, Brushes, paints, canvas, shadow box, lights, all of this I did. “The Method”taught me how to mix paints in steps which I did. I believe that Mark said somewhere in the tapes to follow all the steps and techniques he teaches, but to add your own ideas and develop your own techniques, not to just follow him blindly. Because I paint from my imagination does not mean I don’t follow “ the method” because I didn’t copy something I was looking at in a photograph or a scene. If all the paintings were from photos still lifes, or models the world would be missing many of the great works of art that fill our museums.
    If I wanted to paint a pottery class with many students, potters wheels and bowls of many different colors and shapes, but I didn’t have a photo or the class itself to copy from, should I not try to paint it? I know what people, potters wheels, bowls, and the inside of a classroom looks like. If I mix my colors in steps the way I was taught to what I think the colors should be, and I feel its not right and “I come asking” for feedback, why is that not following “the method”? Well I rambled on long enough, my command of English without reaching collage isn’t very good but I think I managed to get my point across. I was a successful wood carver/sculptor for the past 30 years. Check out my web page, williamjoanitis.com I am changing the site, Internet Explorer is the only one picking it up so far , after the change others slow. Thanks again for all your advise. Again sorry if I made waves.

    hi Billj I am fairly new here and it seems that people are divided into two groups here about your painting. you have found Mark's method of seeing colour and value , set up a studio and mixed paint. You cannot then paint something out of your imagination. You have to have something in front of you ,that is lit correctly,so you can paint it using the colour checker, that is what Mark's method is about . If you use something from your imagination then you can paint it any way you like. Draw mix paint is about painting exactly what we see in front of us...then...using using what we have learned , we can paint from our imagination .First we must learn to paint what we see...if you just want to use your imagination, then you are doing fine...love your strong colours :) :-h =D>
  • billj P.S I am sure you didn't offend anyone !!! Everyone on the forum advises one another, and everyone wants everyone else to do well...tht's what makes this a great forum !!!! but first the rules...like school,we have to obey them to learn how toe see colour and value....then....we can do anything and paint anything !!!
  • It would be so nice to see some of the paintings that those of you who have mastered Mark's method have now done entirely from your imagination. I don't think we've ever had someone show those before. This would probably help inspire Billj and others who are anxious to learn these basics and get on to what they really want to paint. So, do some of you have paintings that qualify that you will show?
  • Good idea Grandma. I'll post the very first still life I did using Mark's method. The very first Portrait I did using the method and then the first Portrait I did from my imagination. I still love my first Still life. I like my first Portrait and absolutely hate my first imagination portrait. I realised that, even after following the method for several paintings I was trying to run before I could walk painting from my imagination when I obviously didn't have enough technique to place light and shadow without any reference. How could I judge subtle value changes to achieve a life like look without a photo or model to look at and study? Since then I paint portraits colour checking now and then and painting a lot by eye. I'm enjoying this but know I would get better results going slower and following the method more. I'll be coming back to a still life again soon and following the method to the latter to brush up on my values and colours.

    The last one I post is my favourite portrait to date and it's the one I took the most time over.

    The first still life is also the first time I ever used oil paints! I was so inspired by Marks tutorials.
    Cin_DopnwyderGaryrgr
  • As another example, I'll post a pencil portrait I did before I found Marks Method. So I was drawing before I ever painted. For me the golden rules are. 1, Go slow. 2, Learn by painting from life. 3, Don't run before I can walk.
    Cin_DGary
  • P.s. Just re-read your comment Grandma and realise I don't really qualify because I have by no means mastered the method yet! But my posts might still be of some interest :D
    Martin_J_CraneGary
  • Bill, per Tanya's suggestion here are three paintings I did using Mark's method (minus using a real setup) but the subject matter was from my imagination. I did these paintings a long time ago and the pictures of the paintings are poor (didn't have David's great instructions for taking good pictures back then). With your wonderful talent and experience in working 3D for so long, you'll do much better than this once you get the foundation down as offered by Mark's methods. By 'foundation' I don't just mean following Marks ideas like a cookbook - that's just an early step toward what I really mean by foundation. The greatest attribute of a foundation is the 'understanding' that comes along as the result of application and practice. Then you can apply that understanding to all manner of styles, techniques and subject matter (real or not). I'm sure you went through similar stages in the early years of being a sculptor. :)
    Martin_J_CraneMarcus
  • Here's a portrait of one of my granddaughters done in an abstract realism style.
    opnwyderMartin_J_CraneMarcusGary
  • Gary; You never cease to amaze me. these three paintings are beautiful, the color (which is one of my problems ) is on the money, bright, alive, The first one, the bouquet is arranged beautifully, everything flows. The color of the second one is perfect, The texture of the leaves and the dark background bring it out of the canvas. Roses are my favorites, your rose gives me the desire to carve more of them, they always sell. I still think your landscape is specular and my favorite on the forum. Thanks for your kind words. Bill
    Gary
  • Grandma: you are an Awesome lady. is that oils? how did you do it? I think its great.
  • edited May 2013
    No, Billj, that one is acrylic. I looked at a photo and did it entirely freehand, no sketching, etc. Just brush and paint from the tubes. I find abstract art very simple and easy to do. That style isn't nearly as popular as realism. In fact, my granddaughter doesn't like it at all but her parents do.
  • Tanya, I think its awesome.
  • Omg Garry.... Karen is a Saint!
    tjs
  • Your Wife is transparent. Great signature. ;) ^:)^
    tjs
  • GaryGary -
    edited May 2013
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