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Give and Take
There is something interesting that I find on art forums - many artists expect to post a painting or WIP and get feedback, yet they rarely offer or acknowledge their fellow artist. Is it because the artist is busy? doesn't want to participate? doesn't care about anyone else? Insecure about offering advice - even a "Like" click seems to be rare amongst many artists asking for attention/feedback/comments. I think it is important on a visceral level to examine - how much do you participate as an artist?
In the past 3 years of being involved in forums, I would say about 30% of artists acknowledge others and the rest seem to think that they don't need to give back.
I wish there was a rule that if you post a painting here and you want help, you should acknowledge the existence of at least 5 other artists - whether that be a "like" click or simple comment or critique.
In the past 3 years of being involved in forums, I would say about 30% of artists acknowledge others and the rest seem to think that they don't need to give back.
I wish there was a rule that if you post a painting here and you want help, you should acknowledge the existence of at least 5 other artists - whether that be a "like" click or simple comment or critique.
Comments
It took me a week or 2 to realise I could use the -like, agree, awesome etc, symbols
some of us are loners...me for one...levels of expectation are not necessarily clear to me...sometimes I need to come on the site to "have company" and enjoy just looking at others' work, their WIP's how they do it differently to me and really sucking up the beauty and inspiration...i would likely spend a few weeks or so responding to such and then go to having my head down in my next creative learning obsession for more months than not...when others see some merit in my work it helps my insecurities...there is no way I could maintain the engagement longer or more frequently than that...
(I am on the autism spectrum)
that may assist you in understanding that there can be lots of reasons that are not about lack of appreciation but difference in the ability to engage consistently and/or frequently
It's a rare breed these, see my painting but don't bother me with yours, painter/posters.
I remember one such poster which was a professional painter with a website, galleries, and lots of transactions, who posted their painting and a link to their website. It was their only post to this board. I'd have to think it was a marketing strategy rather than support for other artists.
Some of those new artists will introduce themselves, and usually outline what they are doing, and what they hope to improve. We often respond with a warm welcome message.
Then there are those that sign up, post work and ask for critique and never contribute. Some, as @Renoir says, try to market themselves. I think they are creating permanent links back to their own work, which boosts their search rankings. It's marketing, and we're not very receptive to that.
In the latter two cases, we could respond with a message that says something like: We welcome you to the forum. It's a great community that can offer all kinds of advice, critique and support. But we want you to engage and contribute, so please, post your work, ask questions, but above all, answer questions, encourage the others, and generally help the community. You'll get much more out of this forum that way, and we'll be encouraged to help you.
Finally, when suitable (and only when suitable), we should help Mark out, and point out Geneva products and videos to watch. It's the least we should do.
@PaulB that is a great idea about encouraging participation for people who are new - brilliant!
I also completely agree about supporting Mark and Geneva - that is why we are here - because of him and his generosity .
I suppose it is like other internet communities, social rules don't apply. I may nudge some, "hey, it looks like you are very talented and have much to offer, if you can find the time, how about acknowledge some of the other artists here so we can have a thriving community" - ok, I took it a bit far
@tassieguy I think you have the best solution.
- Perfect post, well-stated and correct. Nothing more to say. What she said.
- Post is complete and utter gibberish and not worthy of a response.
- No one saw it or read it.
- No one understood it and could be bothered to ask for an explanation.
- No one cares about it.
Not all interpretation are bad.a lot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder when people are self absorbed - see no one other than themselves and don't seem to care about anyone else or what they are painting/saying but gosh, do they want attention on their own posts - .even to the point of commenting the most on their own posts - but never anyone else's. I am finding it especially apparent in online artist forums -
"As long as I remember to take my medication no one will get hurt"
For me, I haven't been commenting as much because it has become overwhelming for me after being on this forum and the old Mark forum for so long. Back then, I probably commented on every post. Now, there are many members. If I see that a post is getting positive and constructive comments then I may not say anything. It doesn't mean that I (or we) have no interest. All in all I think people here are good about commenting when they get the opportunity. What I really like here is when members contribute tips and information.
So, I am new, know very little and frankly I do not have much to say expect, nice painting, looks good, etc.
I genuinely appreciate all of the comments I see from experienced painters like yourself and hope one day to be able to contribute.
Also, I do not log on daily or even every other day. My work and family schedule take up a lot of time, so I log on when I can, comment when I can and think I have something to contribute.
I am not trying to be rude or ignore others.
By the way, I am a big fan of yours, your style is different from what I see in Mark's videos, but they are fresh, full of life, and enjoyable to look at. I hope you keep posting and painting. I think you are a great asset to this forum.
New and still learning.
Funny thing is every single person commenting here, I consider to be very generous to others. Goodness gracious, Ronna too!!! She is so generous with her comments, ideas, suggestions and helpful ideas.
It is very common on art forums and blogs - even probably twitter and Instagram (I am not on those) but there is an eagerness for attention and yet absolutely no feeling of reciprocation by acknowledging others. It is a curious social experiment I suppose (if I was a sociologist )…. I reckon I shall just return to my studio and not get irked by such matters. tassie has the most perfect solution - non-judgmental and an easy fix.
Happy painting everyone!!!
and 3 other things that sometimes tie my hand at critiquing :
2. a work liked by all (I'm afraid to break the chain)
3. someone has genuinely tried his/her best.
4. clearly the work was not done patiently, unless its a plein air or from life.
I never realized i was so judgemental
A VERY IMPORTANT...event took place during this discussion...for those of us that maybe (in my case certainly) doubt ourselves...the sharing and therefore clarification of how and why people comment and don't comment...some suggestions for those of us that feel pushed for time/engagement energy to use the emoticons to support artists AND other commenters (great isnight), and to remember that a non-response to your own work can mean almost anything not necessarily a criticism
We did good peoples!!
I agree, the forum is great, very supportive and brimming with great work and advice from a great diversity of artists.
I know what you mean about offering criticism and feel a similar way being fairly newish here myself.
I keep trying and hopefully my constructive criticism, as well as my painting, will improve with practice.
Sometimes I see a painting here which I know is technically very good but which doesn’t appeal to me personally , so in this case I don’t comment. I might click the ‘awesome’ button but I don’t write anything about my reaction.
Actually it’s very seldom you see a painting here which is terrible. I suppose people know themselves when to hide their light under a bushel😊
When I see a painting I love , I tend to comment to the point of sounding gushy , but my comments are always sincere.
It takes guts to post a painting here , I know from experience! Even the most confident artists are prone to feeling exposed and vulnerable, so I think the more positive comments they get , the more helpful and encouraging it is.
I’d love to be able to give lots of advice and constructive critique but I don’t know enough to do that. It’s so helpful, though , to read what others write , those who DO know , because it’s all part of the massive learning we are experiencing on this forum.
I hope @Julianna’s thread will encourage more people to react and take the trouble to write a critique.
It only takes a few minutes but it means so much to the artist.
I’m sure even artists here , whose work everyone loves and appreciates , post their paintings with a degree of self doubt and trepidation.
Will people like it ? Is it up to my usual standard ? Will people see the flaws , the mistakes ?
Will anyone give me some positive feedback ? Will anyone even look at it?
Am I wasting my time ?
I’m sure it’s even worse the more established you become because people expect such high standards from you.
Do you think any of us ever get to the point where we can know that we’re good enough ??
I’m not sure we ever do. Maybe it’s the human condition to never feel we are enough.
I guess its both a blessing and a curse for the artist. I think always wanting to improve is part of the life journey with it and keeps me learning.
If I though I was good enough then the journey would be over.
At the moment I am content with being pleased with my efforts and my inner voice saying `but you know you can do better.
You have reminded me of something my brother once said to me "It is the human condition to be dissatisfied".
Reacting to the work of others with "like" or "awesome", Asking questions, being curious, sharing a new approach or resource--these are all ways to give back. I agree with @tassieguy if the poster only ever goes to "post your paintings" to only get feedback/praise related his/her own work and never bothers to react to or engage with anyone else's posts, that is highly annoying. If you are confident enough to post your work and engage with others about your work you can and should be willing to have similar conversations with others about their work.
I am guilty of this, and I hope I will be forgiven for not participating and contributing as much as I perhaps should. I have commented on several paintings that I loved, but I don’t feel qualified to provide constructive criticism, when everything essential has already been so eloquently phrased by more experienced members of the community. The reason I sometimes don’t appear in the forum for several months is due to my work situation as a freelance technical translator. I often have intensive work periods of several months, when I often translate around 3000-4000 words per day. At the end of such days my brain is totally discharged, and I only have energy left to lie on the sofa and watch gardening shows on TV😄
After such intensive work periods I will have “earned” a period off, and that’s when I’m painting and appearing in the outside world again. So my engagement will probably continue to come in fits and spurts.Shyness
Completely new to community
Not a good communicator
Thinking about others' reactions
Not bothering about others
Ego
Lack of time due to various reasons
Internal politics and personal preferences
Those who do not communicate much get very little attention in anyway. So why worry?
Shy/new/self-absorbed people:
We are a friendly and supportive group and you will get SO MUCH MORE from this forum if you do more than just post. We all have tremendous room for growth, so asking questions and offering observations (even tentative ones) will help you grow as an artist!! And you may also find that you develop some deep and lasting friendships!
What is not to love about these opportunities?
Sometimes just a one word acknowledgement is all an artist needs as feedback. Not a long , detailed dissertation. And feedback means so much and offers so much encouragement when it comes from a fellow artist. I’m sure you know this from your own recent experience here. 😊