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Pyroll Ruby or Cadmium Red?

I watch Mr. Carder’s videos whenever I needed and I appreciate his knowledge and experience but there is something I really don’t understand. In some of his videos, red color that he uses as a primary red is so lighter than Pyroll Ruby. It appears as a bright, vivid Cadmium Red in the videos more than a dark valued and balanced primary red. Is it Pyroll Ruby or Cad Red?



And also I searched but couldn’t find any information. What are the transparency rates of each paints? I assume all of the colors are opaque or semi-opaque except Pyroll Ruby and French Ultramarine?

Comments

  • This is something that only the users of Geneva paints can tell. Pyroll Ruby is a direct replacement of Alizarin Crimson which is a lot darker than what we see in Mark's videos.
    BurakAkbas
  • dencaldencal -
    edited September 2018
    BurakAkbas

    This is how Mark describes his limited palette red:

    PYRROLE RUBINE
    The best red for a limited palette, with no purple or orange undertones, allowing the greatest range for color mixing. Pigment PR 264

    Here is Marks cadmium red description:

    CADMIUM RED

    A very bright Cadmium Red. Perfect for mixing strong, brilliant reds as well as intense oranges. Pigment PR108

    https://genevafineart.com/collections/all-items/products/100ml-cadmium-red-1


    Denis





    BurakAkbas
  • When the original Red came out it was different. I don't know why the change. It was called corsetta Rosa I think.
    kaustavM
  • Thank you all for your answers. What about transparency? Which colors are transparent and which are not?
  • edited September 2018
    Ezra said:
    When the original Red came out it was different. I don't know why the change. It was called corsetta Rosa I think.
    It was called Rosso Corsa and they changed it because the pigment discontinued a few years ago. They replace Rosso Corsa with Pyroll Ruby because pigment manifacturers are out of stock of pigment and they are not able to produce it any more. Mark Carder answered this question in one of his videos, as far as I remember he said he is happy to be forced to change essential palette’s red and he is more satisfied with the handling properties of new red pigment. So it’s even better now than it used to be, I guess.
  • Kaustav said:
    This is something that only the users of Geneva paints can tell. Pyroll Ruby is a direct replacement of Alizarin Crimson which is a lot darker than what we see in Mark's videos.
    Can you share some photos of your red paint? Mr. Carder once said his cameras record paints more bright and vivid than they actually are. I really want to see Pyroll Ruby’s true hue and value before I get one, so it would be most appreciated if you share some photos. Thanks! :)
  • I don't have pyroll rubine. I use alizarin crimson. Here is some sort of a photo that I shared onto my insta page. If this helps. There are good replacements to real alizarin. Those are permanent alizarin crimson, quinacridone rose, pyroll ruby, pr149 and even quinacridone magenta. All have good mixing properties.


    BurakAkbas
  • CJDCJD -
    edited October 6
    Cadmium red is a good pigment to use because its lightfastness rating is higher than other reds. Alizarin crimson including some permanent alizarin crimsons have very poor lightfast ratings and fade over time. Cad red is not too powerful either and you can easily tone it down with the other colors in the carder palette
  •  I really want to see Pyroll Ruby’s true hue and value before I get one
    When I think of the two, Pyroll Ruby and Cadmium Red just as a thought in my head when I'm mixing colors, I see red with a sort of black background for the Pyroll Ruby and Cadmium Red with a sort of orange background.  Hope this helps.

    Summer
    BurakAkbas
  • edited October 8
    I like quinacridone crimson, cadmium red, cadmium yellow dark and arylide yellow. These can get you to just about anywhere on the red/orange/ yellow continuum.  And when mixed with ultramarine blue and varying amounts of white and maybe a touch of burnt umber you can get a wide range of lovely cool and warm violets and purples with these pigments. I don't use alizarin because it's not light fast and because quinacridone is as good or better. I haven't needed  pyrole. I try to keep my pallet simple. There's no need to waste money on every colour under the sun that the manufactures love beginners for buying.  The fewer pigments the better. Mark's five basic colours and a few power colours for special  purposes are all you really need.  However, I will admit that I use the cheap earth colours -  yellow ochre and red oxide -  because I see no point in wasting money mixing these from expensive cadmiums and synthetic chemical colours.  I've never needed cadmiums or pyrole for rocks and trees. I love the natural earth colours -  they're powerful mixers, light-fast, non-toxic and as cheap as chips.  But if you really enjoy mixing cad yellow, burnt umber, ultramarine and white to arrive at yellow ochre, or if you want to feel more uppity by mixing an earthy red from  cad red or pyrole with cad yellow, burnt umber, etc, and if don't care about the cost or time wasted, then, sure, forget the natural earth pigments and have fun mixing.
    dencal
  • edited October 8

    @dencal

    That’s the exact problem I’ve been talking about. Pyrrole Red is Pigment Red 254, I use that pigment as my main red too (to be more specific I use Rembrandt’s Permanent Red Deep), it’s a lightfast and semi-opaque or semi-teansparent mid red color and it’s a very good alternative to cadmium red, napthol red and quinacridone red.

    However Mr. Carder uses PR264 instead, which is much more cooler and darker like genuine alizarin crimson both in mass tone and undertone. There are some brands that use that pigment as well (Rembrandt and Schmincke Norma as far as I remember) and their colors are dark, a little bit more desaturated alizarin crimson alternatives too, unlike Geneva’s Pyrrol Ruby which seems more like Pr254 instead of Pr264...

    Here are the comparison of both pigments by Rembrandt Oil Colors:

    Pr254

    https://pasteboard.co/IB3yZ0c.jpg

    Pr264

    https://pasteboard.co/IB3zoSX.jpg

    That’s why I’m a little bit confused and asked that directly to Mr. Carder and he replied like that;





    So I need a proper footage of Geneva Pyroll Ruby :/ Is there anyone using it?
  • From an old test over white, mid brown and black on smooth panel:


    BurakAkbas
  • Richard_P said:
    From an old test over white, mid brown and black on smooth panel:


    Thank you very very much! That was just what I needed.

    So yes, Pyrolle Ruby really does look more vivid and bright in Carder’s videos than it really is.
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