Mixing my First Batch of paints

H.M

Hey,
So like i said in my previous thread,I was planning on giving the Carder Method a try.I decided it would be better if I mixed a batch of paint with the SDM.
Before I do that though I have a few inquires related to the paints I am using and the recipe of the SDM.
1)So I am going to be using Daler-Rowney Georgian Cadmium yellow pale and Burnt Umber.I know this wasnt recommended but it is a lot cheaper than The W&N,and get a lot more paint(ml) for less price.Which works for me.
2)I have always used Flake white,and I dont plan on changing...But then I have been reading around on the forum and I found some people having a few issues with how fast it dries...Does anyone have any recommendations or changes in the Medium for flake white?
3)I am using the alizarin crimson and french ultramarine from the Van Gogh brand..amazing pigments and dry slowly on the palette itself.Also I have ordered the Winsor And Newton Crimson because i will be running out of the original paints...
Up until now my approach to painting has been very dis-organised..though in the end it has worked pretty well for me as i end up putting more time correcting value and so on.So this will be quite a big deal for me and I dont want to leave any stone un turned.
As I will be working from photos(still havent found any that appeals to me.. )..I wont be needing the color checker at this moment...
I hope anyone can help me with the medium recipe..and if anyone has worked with the paints I am about too.I would really appreciate it.
Have a great day!
H.M

dencal

HM

Daler Rowney is a bit softer out of the tube due to more oil and less pigment.
I suggest if you must use DR keep the SDM to Mark's formula, just use less of it to obtain that elusive ketchup consistency. You may find you have to use a lot more Daler Rowney to obtain values, which can be a false economy.

Flake white in its original formulations is lead carbonate, deadly to have around a house where pets or children or unknowing adults ingest or breath in dust particles. Lead based paints are prohibited by authorities in the developed world. Review your studio practice regarding cleaning fluids and brush wipes.

Many brands of alizarin crimson are fugitive (fade rapidly). Check the permanency rating. Or buy W&N permanent alizarin crimson.

Denis

EstherH

@H.M A year ago I tried to get around with all those mediums and paint brands and possible mixtures. I did systematic trials to find out what would be the best paint/brand/medium etc.... then I realized that it was not important enough and I should better start to paint with whatever I had. Since then I paint with many different brands of oil paint, mix them together and take whatever medium I think best... I had no bigger problems, sometimes the white gets stiff, sometimes not... in the end, everything dried and looks fine. This might not be very helpful in terms of answering your questions, but just to show you, that it is possible to paint DMP technique even if it is a bit chaotic...

H.M

@dencal :thanks for the reply...I havent got the paints yet..so I would only know the consistency once I try them out..a bit more of paint would be fine I guess..it is 75 ml after all..but well see how that goes.
@EstherH :thank you..sure it may not have completely answered my question(lol)but it is definitely helpful..I have been managing with so-so paints and so so brushes...so I felt if was trying master something I might as well be serious about it and do it the way its supposed too.Also I dont need very thick pigment as up to this point in almost all my paintings my brush strokes are quite soft.Also there wouldnt be any levelling agent in the paint I am about to mix..oops..I cant seem to get Linseed stand oil..
I also forgot to add a few thing in my previous question..Some of the things recommended in the recipe originally arent available here in India..and they are very very expensive to import...
So i am restricted to basically using: Turpentine(instead of mineral spirits),Refined linseed oil and Oil of cloves...My main goal with this batch of paints is to have smooth paint which doesnt dry too quickly..on the palette(or solidify in the jars).Would you say these three ingredients in different proportions would fit the bill?
If not..I might have to give those jars to my mum so that she can store Jam
Thanks for the help!

EstherH

I am sorry @H.M I am lucky enough to have found all the ingriedents for the dmp medium. I don't know if it would work... But I am sure that David or Denis or somebody elso on the forum will know better than I do... Good luck!

H.M

@EstherH : yes.. I hope it would still work. I know it would be a kind of trade not having everything but..I just want to prolong the drying time. So. I hope it works. Thanks for the insight.
Have a nice day!

dencal

HM

I think your best option for extending the open time of the paint is linseed oil and clove oil. Do not use any solvent, which will speed up drying time.

Use small airtight glass jars with reliable seals, keep base mixes (blue, yellow, red, brown, white and black) as stock jars (75ml).

Mix commonly used values in small plastic snap cap cups (10ml).

The aim here is to minimize exposure of fresh paint to the open air.

If you mix each color group as you need it in snap cap cups you can paint directly out of the cups for about two weeks. Use a palette for quick mixes of half step values.

Once on the canvas you should have a day or so to paint wet in wet or to blend.
About three to five days later the surface will be tacky and soft on the thicker patches.
Surface should be touch dry in a week.

All of this advice is pretty much dependent on the temperature and humidity during the session.

Denis

H.M

@Dencal: thanks for the advice, like I said if it stays nice and fluid in the jars I'm happy. Also I store my palette in a closed cupboard.. So depending on the paint it remains usable for at least 2-3days.
I was also looking around and found a nice medium by DR which contains stand oil linseed, white spirits.. And lavender oil. I was also reading around and find oil of spike lavender retards the drying time of other oils. It also looks nice and viscous so I'm guessing the oil to spirits ratio is quite high. Should I go ahead and buy it?
I'll try to upload a picture of the container I'm about to use. It's supposed to be used for preserves.
Thanks!

dencal

HM

I was also looking around and found a nice medium by DR which contains stand oil linseed, white spirits.. And lavender oil. I was also reading around and find oil of spike lavender retards the drying time of other oils. It also looks nice and viscous so I'm guessing the oil to spirits ratio is quite high. Should I go ahead and buy it?

I have heard of artist using spike of lavender, not tried it myself though. Sorry no advice.

Also I store my palette in a closed cupboard.

This will not retard the drying rate.

Denis

H.M

@Dencal:Thanks for the reply.I have decided to buy it anyways,though I realise I might be straying away from the original recipe.Do you think Preserve Jars with tight fitting screw on tops be okay to use?
@David Quinn Carder:I have been getting error messages on the forum every once in a while..Is it just me?or is there a Server problem?
Thanks

dencal

HM

Preserve jars are fine. Smallest is best. Minimise air pocket. Baby food jars used to be great, but all replaced now with plastic pouches.

Yes. I'm getting occasional error messages, seems to be persistent low frequency error rate.

Denis

H.M

@dencal: I have good 250ml jars.. I plan on cutting out thin b plastic to wrap the mouth of the jar before putting the lid. Now all I have to do is wait for the paints and medium to arrive!!

[Deleted User]

What is the plastic wrap for?

H.M

@David_Quinn_Carder :To avoid any contact with air,in case the jar isnt completely air tight?

[Deleted User]

Use two-piece jarring lids, no plastic wrap. Modern plastic wrap is not impermeable to oxygen, but those two-piece unlined jarring lids on a glass jar will be fine. Make sure you have at least some clove oil in all your paint to prevent a film from forming (the clove oil will get into the air in the jar to prevent this, so long as you keep the jar closed and don't open it too frequently), and for slower drying times, if possible use cold-pressed linseed oil instead of refined linseed oil. I know it says on W&N's site that refined dries slower than cold-pressed, but that's just not true, and I don't know what they're talking about. Maybe the cold-pressed they sell has driers in it or something.

For Geneva paint we have a custom gasketed-lid system we've designed specifically to keep the paint fresh without using a two-piece lid, which would be messy since customers would receive the jars after they've gone through the shipping process. If you're jarring the paint yourself, the two-lid system is widely available, cheap, easy, and just as good — but do yourself a favor and try to avoid ever getting paint on the lid/rim.

Do not use one-piece jarring lids.

Regarding the error messages, it's a server issue on the software host's end, and unfortunately I can't do anything about it. Should clear up soon, they are aware of the issue.

Ron

Good advice!

H.M

@David_Quinn_Carder :Thanks a lot for the advice.It is strange because i had read up elswhere that Cold Pressed linseed oil does dry up "faster"than refined linseed oil:here is an excerpt:
"This oil is extracted from the linseed without the use of heat, making it higher quality. It retards the drying time of oil paint, but dries a little faster than refined linseed oil (extracted by the use of heat.) This paint increases flow and gloss. An ideal oil in which to grind pigments, it has a slightly yellowy appearance"from the website(http://rachel-shirley.blogspot.in/2013/01/im-confused-about-oil-painting-mediums.html)
either which ways..if W&N does add driers in the linseed oil,Ill have to make do with refined linseed oil because the only seller of Cold pressed linseed oil here is W&N!..my luck I guess.
What do you think about the painting Medium by DR?
Thank you for the help!!

[Deleted User]

Yes, I have read that elsewhere too. Maybe they're regurgitating W&N's information or maybe there is something about some "cold-pressed linseed oils" that I don't know, but I can tell you from experience that with the high-quality oils we use, refined definitely dries significantly faster.

The best thing to do in a situation like this is to run your own experiment. Get some of both, paint a swatch of paint using each oil, and check the swatches for dryness each day.

H.M

So I have almost gathered all the materials to thin down the paint.I was wondering weather the clove oil is the same that can be used for consumption.(I heard it is good for teeth ache)...okay not literal consumption...and cand the same be used in paints?..are they the same?

H.M

okay..so I finally mixed my SDM...could someone please tell me about the consistency...I have a kind of stringy consistency,something like sugar that has been disolved in water and boiled?..thinner than honey.Its not very thick because i didnt have a lot of linseed oil(I used the painting medium).
Thank you
warm regards

[Deleted User]

Yes, clove oil is the same stuff they use for toothaches. Some sources are not good quality, but it's the same stuff. We use clove leaf oil but clove bud oil or anything labeled clove oil, assuming it's the real thing, is fine. If it looks extremely dark, don't use it.

The consistency is demonstrated in the mixing paint with medium video. I'm not sure what you mean by "I didn't have a lot of linseed oil"… did you follow the recipe or not? If you didn't, don't expect the same results/properties or being able to get the same consistency. What do you mean by "I used the painting medium"?

Some pigments are naturally stringy (ultramarine for example). I don't remember the details on how to lessen/counter this (Mark knows).

H.M

@David_Quinn_Carder :Thanks for the reply.let me apologise for the errors before going on..I didnt mean linseed oil..i meant linseed "stand"oil..for some apparent reason..that didnt appear..my bad..I followed the recipe..with the amount of linseed suggested.
The painting medium I was talking about..was the one by daler rowney..which i had mentioned before..which contains stand oil and spirits.(also lavender oil.which might be of no consequence to the consistency)..I wasnt being articulate with the previous message.I am terribly sorry.
In the video it doesn't appear to be very viscous..looks a lot like thinned down oil(which is how its supposed to be i guess)..so to that end..my medium is quite exactly the same.
It was quite different with the DELQ medium wasn't it?that seemed a lot thicker.
As for the stringy part..do you mean that's how it behaves when the paint is dropped from a height(to check the consistency)?
I hope Mark could help me then.though I havent mixed it with the paints just yet.
And the clove oil is quite clear..in the sense it looks like thickened water(if that even exists *-*)..with just the slightest tinge of yellow..so I am assuming its pure.
thanks for the help

[Deleted User]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were describing the consistency after mixing with paint.

I don't know anything about the Daler-Rowney medium, but just go ahead and mix small test batch of paint with your SDM and see what happens. Make sure to follow the steps in the video so you don't get lumps, and add very little medium at a time so you don't overshoot.

H.M

@David_Quinn_Carder : Ill do that..I plan on starting out with burnt umber and yellow..should i wait for 24 hours before trying to check consistency again?..and then go ahead and mix more paint.The daler rowney medium in essence is basically the same..so shouldn't give trouble..fingers crossed.

[Deleted User]

Some colors tend to get thinner after sitting for a few days, and I think yellow does this, so you might want to stop a little short of it being thinned down the right consistency and then check on it in a day or two.