Mark's Black Isn't Black Enough

Junebug

I'm working on a black ceramic vase. The blackest I can get starting with 2 parts burnt umber and 3 parts blue isn't black enough for much of the vase. My mix works fine in the lighter areas (next step). Should I use the blackest I can get and then do a half step for the next step. In the grand scheme of things, no one will know unless they see the vase and painting side-by-side. Seems I remember Mark mentioning this is the video, guess I'll have to watch it again.

ebs

The darkest black you'll get is by mixing 60% blue with 40% umber. The darkest dark in nature is darker than black paint. That's just the limitation of paint. So just use pure black in those areas. And if an area is a little lighter but still a little darker than your paint, use black paint still, until the area your matching is the same value as your black. From then on it's straight forward.

Ron

@junebug,
What Mark said is true. But if you want to try an experiment mix a patch with Mark's mix and then, try mixing a small patch of color using ivory or mars black. Just a thought.

[Deleted User]

I would take the advice of @ebs: Do what photographs do and if what you're painting is darker than black, paint it black. If, for composition reasons, you don't want those areas to be all black, the best way to deal with that is to check your blacks when you set your still-life lighting up, and adjust lighting as necessary before you proceed.

Balancing and adjusting your light for white is the most important thing, but a lot of people forget to check their blacks at this stage too. It's not an issue when painting from photographs, but when painting from a shadow box, it can be crucial depending on the subject.

Yes, you can cheat a little sometimes, but you have to know where and when cheating will work… not to mention, whether cheating will be helpful or not. Usually it's okay to lose your lines and lose detail in shadow. From what you're describing in your current painting — and I can't be sure without seeing it — it sounds like it wouldn't hurt to try cheating, since you're only too light by half a step. Just "cheat" as little as possible to get that half-step of extra detail in there.

Also: you can actually get a slightly darker black by adding alizarin crimson to the umber+ultramarine mix, but the problem there is it becomes a pain to work with in many situations because it blends purple. Sometimes this isn't an issue though, so you can try it out.

Junebug

All

Thanks for the help. I painted the vase today and ended up doing the half step, i.e., cheating a little bit. I think I just picked the wrong thing to paint. It's a ceramic vase and the glaze is solid black at the top, but the light shining on it makes it grayish in places. At the bottom it's like a wash of blackish green on gray. Also, the glazes are hard (for me) to paint because the potter has used her creativity and on the canvas it looks odd. I found it very difficult to make the flowers look 3D - hard edges with semi-impasto seemed to work best. The painting looks very flat. But, once again I learned a lot. (That is not my shadow box, it's the bookshelf of the matching vase.)

dencal

Junebug

Looks good. The flowers do stand in relief to the vase. Photo a bit fuzzy (tripod) but nice lighting.

Denis

Junebug

Denis, that's the vase. I wish I could paint that well. (

broker12

Several things to consider. Value often depends on what is around it. If you lighten values around your dark, your dark will appear darker. A well-known portrait painter with whom I have studied, goes against the admonition to work from dark to light, especially when painting portraits of businessmen in white shirts. He blocks in the white shirt very early on in the process because, he says, if he waits until near the end, it makes the face/flesh look too dark.

I wish I could remember the two artists who had this reported conversation, but in general, it went something like this . . . one of them, noticing black on the palette of his companion, said, I couldn't paint with black on my palette, and the other replied, I couldn't paint without it.

Ron

When it gets difficult try turning the canvas upside down and concentrate on shapes, forms & color and drawing. >-

Laura

Junebug, I agree with Broker 12 when he stated what I learned from my master teachers long ago '...if you lighten values around your dark, your dark will appear darker.' And I use the principle of including a white or near white to define the black.

Hillyman

Junebug: Mark's recommendation of using only 5 colors notwithstanding, ivory black is a nice black with an undertone of blue. So you can think of it as a very dark ultramarine, and then add burnt umber for some interesting tones. Because of the blue, ivory black in combination with yellow ochre can make an interesting dark muted green for some parts of your vase.

mavis_swt

Having the same issues! This thread is useful/helpful.