Schminckes "P. alizarin crimson"

I always used ruby red, a bright magenta from Schmincke (PR122) but now I'd rather try the recommended more neutral Permanent alizarin crimson, but Schmincke has no "alizarin hue".

Here's the

My first choice would be Madder lake dark but unfortunaly it's a blend of two pigments PR 254/
PV 42 (maybe it is not that bad because both are in the pyrrol family?). As in the pdf described it's a bit brighter than genuine alizarin crimson.

But I've found that Permanent alizarin crimson is often made of PR 179. This would be Florentine red here. But I am not sure if it's bright enough to be an alizarin replacement.

I hope you can help me out here.



  • There is only one manufacturer of permanent Aliz - BASF.

    There are no replacements, except for the real Aliz pigment, but that will fade.

    Color name: Permanent Alizarin Crimson
    Chemical description: Anthraquinone
    Color index name: PR177
    Color index number: 65300
    Permanence rating: A
    ASTM lightfastness rating: I
    Transparency/Opacity: T
  • cloencloen -
    edited October 2013
    I am not sure what you want to tell me. I am looking for a proposal regarding an "P. alizarin crimson" pigment in the Schmincke Mussini series. Or otherwise does someone have experiences with PR179 (Is it really that dull?) or PR254/PV42? At the moment I can not try products of other brands.

    How long does it take to fade?

    Here's more information about genuine alizarin crimson and its fading: Scroll down to PR83
  • The Geneva will be permanent and we are getting close to being ready!
    [Deleted User]
  • I've read about this project but unfortunately, it would take too long (Release+shipping) and maybe too expensive (import costs). But someday I'd like to try them, purchased from a dealer.
  • Cloen, In your case, I'd choose Madder Lake Dark or Carmine. Either one is bound to give you good results. The worst case scenario is that you might have to get another color to do something they won't...but that is unlikely and I wouldn't worry about it until it happens.
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