Critic my "Work in Progress" about 90% complete

Comments

  • Wow! Amazing realism.  :)
    osiosbon
  • edited October 24

    Thanks, adding close ups of the same painting since its too big to get actual feel of it ..about 60" by 48" 




    A_Time_To_PainttassieguykaustavMallforChrist
  • Ooohhhh... It feels like standing right there!
    osiosbon
  • Fantastic work.  I love all the attention to details.  The only thing that feels a bit awkward is her hand the shape doesn’t seem correct and it is a bit too dark.  The length of her forearm may also be a bit too long.  Great job, all around.
    What size is the work?  
    osiosbon
  • edited October 24
    GTO said:
    Fantastic work.  I love all the attention to details.  The only thing that feels a bit awkward is her hand the shape doesn’t seem correct and it is a bit too dark.  The length of her forearm may also be a bit too long.  Great job, all around.
    What size is the work?  
    Thanks and yes I agree with your critic. Its still unfinished and the hand is in my radar so are some other stuff :)  The painting is 60"/ 48"
  • Wow @osiosbon!  Super detail and love the subject matter.  
    osiosbon
  • Very strong realism in terms of portrayal. Almost photographic to the point I keep having to tell myself it isn't a coloured photo. Lovely moment of action frozen to create the human stories of each person there. I'm in awe of your ability to sketch so accurately. My critique below takes up more space to explain my thoughts but please note that my praise for your work is much stronger.
    My main comment is in terms of colour. For example the fruit and vegetables look like a black and white photo that has been hand coloured, each section a different colour, to the point that it's like a patch of this or that green, a patch of violet... To some extent this effect is across the entire painting. Obviously you aren't finished and this might be just a first stage of colouring.
    I'm trying to deconstruct to understand why it has this effect. What is your technique? It looks like you made a grisaille/ monochrome sketch and then glazed colour over it? I notice the fruit between her arm and legs looks more finished to me. I'm looking for the deeper shadows where chroma starts to drop and they are then affected by reflected light.
    I'm interpreting that it was an overcast day, because the shadows are very understated. If it is direct sunlight then I'd be ramping up those shadows.
    osiosbon
  • edited October 25
    Thanks everyone for your appreciation and insightful critics which was exactly my purpose of the post before I go in further detail with the painting. 

    @Abstraction You hit the bulls eye there, it was an overcast morning around 8 AM and everything had a cooler magenta/pinkish effect. 
    The color differences in vegetables were intentional as was in the source reference. You see, gourds, luffa, ridge gourds all are green but of different shades. Also maybe India is a more colorful country haha (just kidding). 
    Youre right that the light areas have darkened in many places and I dont know why. I have to rework on lighter areas on many parts once again. Ive mixed Daniel Smith pure pw6 with some local grade pw6 to weaken it a bit. Not sure if hidden zinc in local brand is the culprit. 
    The aim of the composition was to portray the emotion of the lady farmer seller and to give spectators a feel of being in the moment of a a very usual everyday life morning in Kolkata. The surrounding characters are to add to the chaotic ambience. Also if you notice the heads, starting from the main center figure one can go anticlockwise in a circular direction following the heads, just an effort to keep the viewer drawn in the entire painting, not sure if Ive succeeded though lol
    I didnt follow a strict direct or indirect method of grisaille first. I tried to get the big shapes first with broad marks and then areas smaller than them and so on. To be honest drawing I did at last, coz I have seen if I draw accurately at first, I feel like my hands got tied up and I have to work within a confined space and once something is done I fear to retouch them. But rather, I went for values first, keeping edges as soft I can. Then went for colors and lastly drawing it to details. Dont judge lol but thats just me. Drawing last gives me a feel of much freedom and I am not scared for corrections or refining gradually. Following are some snippets of earlier painting stages. 
    By the way, this is my first professional attempt and I myself learned tons working on this piece since past few months. 


    Abstraction
  • Suez said:
    @osiosbon, Spectacular!
    I’m sure anything I would say to critique it is something you are aware of, and can alter. I’m sure you've got this grande symphony under control in your mind. Bravo and carry on! You’ve got this!
    Thanks a lot Suez. But Id love to hear your critics mate, even if I am aware or unaware of it. 
  • edited October 25
    Your approach to drawing is the best one, @osiosbon. Get the big shapes in, the broad areas of value, and the drawing will look after itself. Like you, I find line drawings hem me in and make me paint tightly so I never do drawings first. I draw with the brush as I paint.
    Thanks for showing us the progress shots which are very instructive.  :)
    osiosbonAbstraction
  • tassieguy said:
    Your approach to drawing is the best one, @osiosbon. Get the big shapes in, the broad areas of value, and the drawing will look after itself. Lime you, I find line drawings hem me in and make me paint tightly so I never do drawings first. I draw with the brush as I paint.
    Thanks for showing us the progress shots which are very instructive.  :)
    Thanks mate. It means a lot to me, coming from someone of your caliber. Your paintings are breathtaking to say the least. 
    tassieguy
  • @osiosbon It's great to see your process. I like the way you bring the entire painting along together, starting with the key statements - which is also my approach. Yes, you communicated well that feeling within your story because I know how hard someone who sells in a market has to work for very little in return, as well as the atmosphere, motion, colour, mood... I'm familiar with the colours of India, it's an immersion. I have been many times and have been to markets just like this one. So yes, you've correctly observed the differences in colours of the vegetables and fruits, that wasn't my point. I am looking for the variation within those groups. But I expect you will probably resolve this as you continue towards completion. And I seem to be the only one who thinks it needs resolution, so perhaps it's just me. Looking forward to see the completed work.
    osiosbon
  • @osiosbon It's great to see your process. I like the way you bring the entire painting along together, starting with the key statements - which is also my approach. Yes, you communicated well that feeling within your story because I know how hard someone who sells in a market has to work for very little in return, as well as the atmosphere, motion, colour, mood... I'm familiar with the colours of India, it's an immersion. I have been many times and have been to markets just like this one. So yes, you've correctly observed the differences in colours of the vegetables and fruits, that wasn't my point. I am looking for the variation within those groups. But I expect you will probably resolve this as you continue towards completion. And I seem to be the only one who thinks it needs resolution, so perhaps it's just me. Looking forward to see the completed work.
    Hmm, thats a good observation Well, I wanted to create some variation in the color temperatures of the green veggies' highlights. Let me know if it looks too impractical. But yes, I will lower the chroma at places and also increase highlights at places. 
  • I absolutely love the unresolved handover of money. There's drama there. She's on her knees reaching forward and he is standing upright, barely bothering to reach forward. We don't know if he will see her difficulty and lean towards her or maintain his dominant position to force her act as a mendicant. Either is possible. It observes society in action - subconscious subtleties of actions by each of the participants.
    osiosbon
  • Really great realisms @osiosbon, and good to see your process.
    osiosbon
  • Suez said:
    osiosbon said:
    Suez said:
    @osiosbon, Spectacular!
    I’m sure anything I would say to critique it is something you are aware of, and can alter. I’m sure you've got this grande symphony under control in your mind. Bravo and carry on! You’ve got this!
    Thanks a lot Suez. But Id love to hear your critics mate, even if I am aware or unaware of it. 
    I’ve decided not to critique member’s work as, to me, it often leads to other than good results by well meaning contributors - sometimes effecting the works in question for the worse when advise, etc., is acted on. Nevertheless, as you are specifically asking me to do so I will in the hopes nothing I say is harmful or leads in a wrong way.

    I love the gestural flow of your composition. There are a few things that disrupt the flow for no reason I can think of without knowing what you are planning on doing next. 

    The main focus point is the handoff area of the buyer’s money to the vendor - reminiscent of Michelangelo’s fresco painting where God reaches out to touch Adam’s hand. Aside from the hand drawing problems, which you know of, there is confusion as the vender’s look and reaching hand are not pointed in the right direction in space toward the buyer’s outstretched hand. I’m guessing, from your added progress photos, that you saw the problem and compensated by squeezing in another figure behind the bicyclist who’s arm would be in closer angle alignment.

     To me this does not work for a few reasons. First, they still miss the directional alignment. Then, (if my assumption is right and I am not reading too much into this), the juxtaposition of the tall upright well dressed rider of the “Hero” bike not even bothering to bend an inch to make the woman’s stretched to the limits reach, while she is before him on fours, a bit easier, makes a more powerful image and storyline than if the arm belonged to the little guy, who is almost out of view, being squeezed between the more overpowering figures.

    The wonderful sweep of the gestural lines made of the main characters arms leading the eyes through the painting is hampered by the same spacial problem in that the back most crossing limbs intrude too far forward in the picture plane. Should be comparatively easy to shove them back a bit so they don’t appear as just design.

    One last thing that interferes with the flow, for me, is a couple of highlights. The bike highlights are great, for the most part, as they add to the eyes movement through the painting brilliantly. It’s only the shine highlight off the plate by the bike’s rear axle and the balled up paper(?) on the road that stop the flow that distract for no good reason that I can see. The bright highlight on the vender’s sari edges also disrupt the flow and their lines fight rather than support the gestural line’s flow and compete, value wise, with the eye’s trip back to the newspaper vender’s white constructed table which is so well done and deserves to be the top light winner, imo.

    I love how the vegetables and fabric patterns and colors are painted. Have no idea how you accomplished taming them all into such a harmonious feast for the eyes. Normally all that in one place would have my over sensitive eyes screaming for the door out to take migraine medication but instead it was a delightful journey. Thank you!

    First of all let me express this, that many artists including renowned ones get defensive upon critics on their works. My motive is opposite, and I can't thank you guys enough for throwing light on the WIP as per your observation and thoughts, which positively impacts the work (of course after my own interpretation of accepting the critics as well :)). That I think is whole purpose of this subforum section and its much appreciable. Makes me feel closer to each other in this small world of art lovers. 

    Your observation of "Hero" made my day. I didnt expect anyone to observe it that close, was a pleasant surprise. I was actually smiling in real, reading that portion haha. 

    Now coming to the directional issue of the opposite hands, well the small man squeezed in between bigger men was actually in the pic which I initially wanted to omit for the sake of clarity. However, later I observed there's a huge disparity in the way the main lady's arm is pointing to and the direction of the helmet man, as pointed to precisely by you as well. I reintroduced that small person in between them. I thought a lot but couldn't find any practical solution without making it look awkward, to emphasize on the presence of that little man. However, I have planned to impart some visual importance indirectly, by creating light and a shadow on his black pants' curves and black leather shoes (a new pic added, unfinished). Also, Id add some highlights on his cap, and keep my fingers crossed if they could be sufficient to do the job. 

    I couldn't exactly figure which limbs you were referring to which were looking too forward, but if it's of the main center lady, she is in middle of moving further forward to shift the center of gravity of her body further to the left hand which will finally be perpendicular to the ground. That is why the left hand might seem a bit like in air. 

    The highlights near the bike are still incomplete, as it would be a paper glass thrown on ground and also some pebbles are yet to be added there to create a dirtiness, the road area is incomplete to a great extent. The highlight on the bicycle axle is of a paper logo, but thanks for pointing it out as its nothing important and if its distracting, Id remove it. Oh yes, my work is left working on the saree a lot, her face as well, I might even go to an extent reducing contrast of everything else to emphasize on the central figure.

    Ofcourse, the expression on the face of the farmer lady had to be the main focus of the entire piece, and without giving away much of my intentions, Id subtly want to mention, if you can see ego difference, class difference......(intentionally leaving the sentence incomplete haha)

    Once again, couldn't thank you enough for your inputs, and once completed Id love to borrow your vision one last time as well. Do you think, its even close to catch judge's eyes in a global competition?

     
  • edited October 26
    I absolutely love the unresolved handover of money. There's drama there. She's on her knees reaching forward and he is standing upright, barely bothering to reach forward. We don't know if he will see her difficulty and lean towards her or maintain his dominant position to force her act as a mendicant. Either is possible. It observes society in action - subconscious subtleties of actions by each of the participants.
    Your words sound music to my ears. Ambiguity in possibilities, drama, social issues, all in an underlying way, .... (leaving the sentence incomplete intentionally once again, to keep the artist's vision bit of a mystery hahaha). 

    All I can say is, I was present in person there, I was clicking at a lot at different times. Coming back home it took me days to select the right moment for a composition from those pics, which felt appealing to me in terms of conveying a story and meaning. 

    Thanks once again mate.
    Abstraction
  • @osiosbon, I think the composition works very well. I'd be careful about changing any of the proportions in this.
    osiosbon
  • @Suez Oh I take all critics positively; I am not a kid anymore haha. I rather cherish critics which for me is the best way to improve. However, shooting with a mobile phone cam from a close distance causes fisheye effect at times, and when I stand in front of the painting the limbs doesn't look too unproportional. I will share a good quality image shot with dslr once its completed. However, once you've stated this, I do see now the left arm of the lady looks bit forward indeed and I think the reason being its lighter shade compared to the right limb which is more in front of viewer. I would try fix those skin tones there. 

    @tassieguy Yea, I wont do any drastic changes at this point in the composition. 

  • @osiosbon, big canvas, broad brushstrokes, and looking good.  :)

    I don't know about the lady's arm with regard to anatomical correctness, but to assuage any worries you might have about that - I know that my own wife is quite capable of extending an extraordinarily long arm when reaching out for money.

    Very much looking forward to admiring and enjoying the finished painting.

    Very best regards, Duncan.
    MichaelDosiosbonGTOanwesha
  • edited October 27
    @MoleMan lol Duncan, let me forward this to your wife  =)

    Jokes apart, thanks for your appreciation, mate. 
  • Hi @osiobon - This is a wonderful painting and I hope you post the finished version for us to enjoy. A beautiful composition. The vegetables are very satisfying to examine, and I like the circular sweep of people around the saturated veggies. The fabric treatment is incredible. This one is a keeper! 

    A few quibbles:
    I suspect that you took this photo relatively close to the people, because there is some exaggerated forshortening between the standing man on right and the center woman reaching to him. By this I mean that their relative sizes are too disparate for the space between them. The man is twice the size of the woman - not just because he is standing and she is crouching.  Look at the relative sized of their noses.) This is a minor point which perhaps only is noticable to me because I personally struggle with this when working from photos.

    The stripes on the clothing on the two left figures and the stripes on the left background of corrugated metal are all grouped together. They detract from the beauty of the center of the image - vegetables and the crouching woman. Even if they really were in the scene, I would suggest you use your artistic license to change them to something which supports the composition's flow.

    The pink and blue stripes on the shirt on the left are too saturated and dramatic, and distract the eye away from the vegetables and the drama of the crouching woman and paying man on right.

    In the top left-center of the background is a light rectangle. This is the lightest value, over a largish area, and it tends to protrude into the space and draw the eye to it. I would suggest reducing the contrast on this so the viewer returns to the center foreground action. Perhaps this was one area you had not completed painting.  

    The head of the crouching woman is not completely in front of the head of the stooping figure. Make it overlap completely because it distorts the spacial relationship. 

    This is a freaking awesome painting which I like very much. If you decide to not make these changes, it will still be an awesome painting. 

    osiosbon
  • @Desertsky Nice points you mentioned mate. I do have the spatial issues in mind and will try my best to resolve as much is possible. I appreciate your detailed observation, and some of them didn't catch my eye earlier. Let's see how the final painting stands, I will share with you all. 
  • Great realism.  I think you should have simplified or summarised the background more.
    osiosbon
  • @Gary_Heath I agree. I'm just starting out, so wasn't confident to experiment with individualism. Hopefully, down the line things will be better. 

    Thanks to you though, all these comments would help me immensely in my journey forward. 
  • @osiosbon, I think you've done a fantastic job with this so far. It's a very big painting so you have scope to get a lot of detail in.  It's hard for a big painting to have the same impact when all we see is a small photo of it. But it is apparent to me that, seeing it up close on a well-lit wall, it will be very impressive indeed.  I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished work, so I hope you'll post an update. :)
    osiosbonMoleMan
  • @tassieguy You are right about the disparity between seeing in real and through a photo especially when shot with a mobile phone. Some differences are really annoying for example, the upper right arm of the main lady looks as if chiseled and flat, however in real its roundish actually. 

    I will take the final photos with a dslr camera following Mark's guidelines, hopefully that would do justice to the originality, lookwise. Can't wait to share with you all too, it will be a huge relief to see it completed lol. 
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