The reason you need to stop drawing

dencal

Folks

I love life drawing and recommend weekly sessions.
Cesar on this short video presents a view that the essence of painting is loose shapes and carefully mixed values.
When I free draw, using the side of my crayon or charcoal, I can get the sense of his approach.
A drawing that uses edges and values instead of lines seems to have a pulse.
https://youtu.be/FimUA3CivTo

Denis

tassieguy

I agree with what he says. Lines can hem us in when painting. 

MichaelD

There are 3 coincidences in this video for me.

• The 30 paintings in 30 days course I did end of last/beginning of this year liberated me from thinking I always needed pre draw before painting. I did non for any of them and I learned to draw with the brush. This also helped me to work loose which I had been wanting to try and do for a while.

• I fairly recently bought Richard Shmid`s book Alla Prima II, though havnt got to the exercises mentioned in this vid.

• Suzuki`s book Zen Mind Beginners mind is something I have treasured since I bought it over 30 years ago. I have found that approach to be so helpful in many aspects of life.

“In the beginner`s mind there are many possibilities, but in the experts there are few.”

-Shunryu Suzuki.

Thanks for posting @dencal

  

Marinos_88

I used to start with an underdrawing and then filled in with paint. It felt nerve racking, because I was afraid to lose my drawing. And when I did, because for example I would paint over it by mistake I felt like it wasn't worth the effort.
I Instead start painting lines of a general shape I see(to act as a guide), then paint masses of values. It completely changed the way I think about painting. Now I'm not afraid to lose my drawing, because there is simply no drawing left after the block in stage. Just masses of values. If you manage to block in accurately adding the details is actually a bit easier.
Even thought I'm new to this kind of approach in painting I can see that loose brushwork is easily achieved because you're less restricted with your brush moves (limit your self with borders as cesar mentioned).
Plus it's really fun and liberating painting this way!

HondoRW

Thanks for posting Denis. I prefer not to do a preliminary drawing either. I just prefer drawing with the brush. 

broker12

For centuries, drawing has been push, promoted, and demanded.  It is the foundation of art.  Even if you plan to, or eventually fall into abstract painting.  Someone (above) commented that he worried about losing his drawing as he covered his canvas with paint.  I'm not being haughty or snotty, but this is the very reason drawing is so important . . . when you begin to lose your drawing, your "muscle memory of your brain (drawing)" will carry you through.  And If you work in the traditional manner (dark to light) you likely will not lose your drawing.  Finally, if you learn the "exact" way to draw/paint something, you will also instinctively know how far you can "stretch" the rubber band of "perfection" away from a perfect drawing.  Drawing is like the work that goes into starting to build a house . . . all those exposed boards and beams that eventually get covered and hidden so they're not seen anymore . . . but we know instinctively that they're there.

CBG

Hmm... I suppose there is no reason one cannot use a proportional divider at arms length (without touching) for BOTH measuring the subject AND checking one's paint/drawing.

Desertsky

Guys – I don’t disagree with the “no lines” approach, but I think there is more to it than that. For people just starting out in drawing and painting, to try no lines in addition to all the other aspects of art may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. This may be the one more thing which beginners do badly at, which leads them to give up.

Maybe after a few hundred hours of line drawing (which is the most obvious way to learn hand-eye coordination, and separate from hue, saturation, value, etc.), someone will then move on to no lines.

People of different experience and skill levels are on this forum.  Beginners need to see some kind of improvement in order to be encouraged to continue. To teach yourself to draw and paint from youtube videos and no actual face-to-face feedback from an instructor is hard enough. 

 DMP stands for Draw, Mix, and Paint. Draw.

GTO

I believe good drawing skills are necessary for a successful painting.  If you understand structure and can think in 3D then you will know when something in your painting is out if wack. 

Marinos_88

broker12 said:

Someone (above) commented that he worried about losing his drawing as he covered his canvas with paint.

Yep, that's me.

Drawing/Sketching is important to practice and be good at.

But when it's about painting it's a different story (in my opinion).

When you have made a good drawing (either pencil or brush) and try to paint over it, two things will happen. You'll either be absolutely precise and paint within the boundaries or paint over your drawing (either by mistake or intentionally).

What i'm saying about been worried to lose my drawing is that when that happens i have to find again my drawing, and sometimes it takes time. It's the time i'm worried about because if i have to make a drawing that will eventually be erased, i prefer to block in and find my drawing as i go.

It's just a matter of saving time when painting and beeing more liberal with brushstrokes.

Marino.

tassieguy

That's right, @Marinos_88. 

broker12

The great American artist Norman Rockwell was also afraid of losing his drawing as he applied paint.  So after placing his drawing on his canvas, he painted over it with shellac so he could scrub down through the paint and find his drawing if necessary.  Not sure he did this all the time.  I read about it in a section of a book dealing with his problems with fast approaching deadlines.  

CBG

broker12 said:

The great American artist Norman Rockwell was also afraid of losing his drawing as he applied paint.  So after placing his drawing on his canvas, he painted over it with shellac so he could scrub down through the paint and find his drawing if necessary.  Not sure he did this all the time.  I read about it in a section of a book dealing with his problems with fast approaching deadlines.  

Not to second guess the greats... but why not draw on a separate sheet, and create the painting using that as a reference?

Richard_P

TamDeal

That is rich.  The guy with two video sets out on building a painting through formal stages, including a beautiful charcoal drawing, just decides to let it rip. 

TamDeal

So easy when you know how.

TamDeal

This is a guy so into drawing, he oil paints in a sketch book.

Abstraction

I always sketched before I started painting. Then when I was taught Australian tonalism I was taught not to draw in that discipline. It was very counter-intuitive for me but probably taught me to see better, and switch to a painting mentality.

The technique is to NOT paint objects but tonal shapes and relationships. Simplify the entire image down into simple tonal shapes (eyes half shut) - taking care to get the main tonal relationships right. "You can't put sunlight in a tube" my teacher would famously say. "So capture the distance between your light and dark." Therein lies the drama. Tones, shapes, edges (hard, soft, lost). Half close your eyes. Paint the next biggest difference... Adjust. Next biggest difference. Adjust. Bring the entire picture along together. What happens is that the picture emerges as if you had a lens out of focus and it's slowly emerging...

I still use that technique at times, but I will also draw in different ways - often wiping back an initial layer or whatever. But the technique I was taught I found really helpful for a) bold painterly approach, not being constrained by your lines; b) tonal control across the whole painting.