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DMP Forum vs other online platforms
I'm curious to know whether and how members here use online platforms other than DMP. So here's a little survey that I hope you'll participate in.
Has social media like Facebook and platforms such as YouTube and Instagram affected your use of the DMP Forum? Do you go onto those more now to post work whereas once you would have just come to DMP? Do you have a preference, or do you like to use both DMP and the other platforms? Are the other platforms as good as the DMP forum when it comes to feedback from other painters or are they mainly used as marketing tools?
Just curious. I have no opinion on the relative merits of either. Thanks for participating.
Has social media like Facebook and platforms such as YouTube and Instagram affected your use of the DMP Forum? Do you go onto those more now to post work whereas once you would have just come to DMP? Do you have a preference, or do you like to use both DMP and the other platforms? Are the other platforms as good as the DMP forum when it comes to feedback from other painters or are they mainly used as marketing tools?
Just curious. I have no opinion on the relative merits of either. Thanks for participating.
Comments
I look at how-to painting videos on youtube sometimes (probably once a month or less). This forum and the DMP videos are much, much better than anything else out there. The only other oil paint forum I look at is WetCanvas, and once I found this forum, I have almost quit visiting that one. It is frequented by beginning painters who want to be quickly guided in craftsmanship by others' opinions while, paradoxically, worrying about urban myths such as oil paintings spontaneously bursting into flames because of linseed oil being the medium. Many will not do even the modest amount of work of reading a single book on oil painting or composition or anatomy.
I think that the reason this forum is so good is that Mr. Carder has given a firm foundation to all aspects of the painting process. This shapes the forum-members' thoughts and gives a common orientation and vocabulary to the discussions.
This eliminates a lot of the urban myth nonsense. Also, those who have followed the DMP method seem to be serious about improving their painting and who put in a lot of hours to improve. This is a self-selecting group whose members are disciplined (because of the hours needed to learn and improve), thoughtful, and helpful (because of sense of gratitude for DMP). In other words: smart, hard-working, nice and GOOD LOOKING!
Among them are Painting Best Practices, Rational Painting, and Traditional Oil Painting. Also, there are many outstanding artists who are extremely profitable to follow. Just off the top of my head, Richard Murdock, Paul Foxton, Todd M Casey, Kathleen Speranza, and many others. In addition, unless you work exclusively with Geneva oil paints, some of the better paint manufacturers such as M. Graham and Michael Harding often go live on FB with extremely informative presentations about various aspects of oil paints -- how they're made, how to make your own, etc., etc.
Then there are several groups devoted to the Munsell method and how to create strings of color which is quite similar to Mark's steps in many respects and worth investigating.
Note that none of these are groups where artists merely post their paintings. Though it's quite informative to follow some of these groups, too, to see what others are doing and learn about many excellent artists and their work.
It's interesting that most of the respondents thus far do not rely heavily on these other platforms.
Getting a little tired of the Funeral Plans adverts they keep pushing on me there, bloody cheery stuff.
I am on Instagram, linked to some friends and a fair few other artists. Its nice to connect with what basically amounts to seeing others work and they can see yours. In terms of marketing and selling though I dont know if its much use because it seems its just seen by other artists in the same boat.
I have on the odd occasion looked at WetCanvas for maybe a specific topic.
I have my own website, which does not get much viewing traffic. You probably have to pay to get it more out there.
http://www.michaeldoran.org/
And of course I still enjoy popping onto this forum now and then.
FB : i post here from time to time for my friends and relatives (elders/cousins who aren't on Instagram) would like to see my work. I haven't joined any groups here to post paintings. So my time and involvement is minimal here.
Insta: I post here when i have some art to show, like in DMP. Again, doesnt need much involvement as in DMP. But i come back to Insta atleast once a day, not for my art but as I really like seeing the works of artists I admire a lot and when you're following >200 artist some new art is always up everyday.
When I get enough responses to make the statistics meaningful, I'll compile a small chart that will show the results of this little survey in an easy to digest form. I'll just use the stats and not the members' names.
tassieguy said:
Platforms that tend to push content, are platform initiated, tend to be more about social status or consensus (likes and retweets and upvotes), and are more aggressively focused on advertising, whereas platforms that tend not to push but mostly accept user initiated content, like the DMP forum, tend to be more intimate exchanges of wanted information, with little to no aggressive advertising.
I find that the latter platforms are more rewarding albeit they involve a bit more work. They also tend to be much more sane.
I also follow quite a few artists on Twitter, but that's really for inspiration and just to see what great art they are making rather than getting feedback or information.
I had a fb account, the only reason I kept it was to keep in contact with friends. I got sick of it and finally made the decision to delete my account.
Does anybody feel that all this social media and intrusive ads on the internet have an effect on their mental health?
I think that social media can drive you nuts. It's probably affecting the whole world's mental health. I think your term, "echo chamber" is apt, @GTO.
I think that social media can drive you nuts. It's probably affecting the whole world's mental health
I am not a fb user. I never saw the need. I have never seen an instagram page, nor a twitter one. I used to be a member of some other (non art related) forums many years ago and kept up to date with them on a daily basis for a long time. However, in the last 4 or 5 years, my enthusiasm with them waned. One forum just died naturally as everyone bowed out over a period of time. Life moves on.
Since I have begun painting again in the last few of months, I have had encouragement from family to join fb as a means of getting my work known to gain some commissions and sell some work. I have so far resisted, and am interested to hear that it is not quite the magic forum for sales as I had been led to believe.
I am useless at promoting myself. I have given away most of my art over my lifetime and undercharged for the 7 or 8 works I have sold in my lifetime (over 50 years). I am currently in a pretty poor financial position and do need an alternative income source, hence trying find a way to get my work known.
Does anyone sell through galleries? Perhaps coffee shops or such like? Years ago I hung paintings in a health food store. I sold one work in 3 years. Same with a saddlery/tack shop, one sale in 4 years. Am I just not good enough? I have no idea, since people I know tell me my work is good, yet it does not sell.
Is etsy any use? I have heard it is full of sellers, but not buyers.
When I found DMP a few days ago, I had hoped to get some feedback on my art, and to see if others felt I was on the right path. So far, some of you have viewed the pictures I have put up, but no one has critiqued or commented, which is a pity. Perhaps it is early days? I am not sure how often people respond to new posts in here, or maybe there is no response until one has been a member for a time?
I am on you tube most of my time. My injury 12 years ago left me having to lie down frequently throughout the day. I have my tv set up to the computer and am on you tube constantly, listening to podcasts, watching all sorts of things. I completely confuse the algorithms with the varied and eclectic interests and subjects I peruse. I do not watch tv at all now and have not for a few years.
Sorry for the long post, there was no initial plan to write a novel, it just ended up that way. For anyone who got this far, thanks for reading and you deserve a chocolate fish!
Selling work is hard. I wouldn't have a clue about how to go about it myself. I'm just lucky I got taken on by a commercial gallery after I won a local community art competition that was judged by the gallery director. I have a show at the gallery once a year now and what's not sold during the show goes in the back viewing space at the gallery and gets sold sporadically throughout the year. Sometimes the gallery even sells pieces via its website. I don't know how. There's no way I would buy a painting I had not seen in the flesh. So, I always advise people to enter competitions. You might just win and get noticed by a gallery.
In respect of getting feedback on your work here on the DMP forum, the time it takes people to look and respond varies from instantly to several days. And not all members give feedback to others. Some just use the place to showcase their own work. They get lots of feedback but don't give to others. That pisses me off. I haven't had time to look at your painting yet but will do so tonight and give some feedback. I usually just write a few sentences pointing out what I think is good and some suggestions for improvements.
Good to have you aboard. Thanks again for your response.
Your suggestion of entering competitions is a good one and not something I have ever done before. I suppose that paradoxically, they are mainly advertised on fb in this day and age! I shall look out for them via other sources.
I did see a farm sculptural competition in the north island this year and thought I might enter something for next year and send it up.
thanks for taking the time to look at my pics. I will go over there and see your ideas.
Instagram is the largest 'simple' way exhibit work. It is getting too big growing exponentially every few months. You pick and choose who you follow. Very simple.
I have several FB groups if get historic information from. I don't use FB regularly. I gave up on it and Instagram when their ad models changed last year. I think instead of me paying to promote on FB they should be paying me for residuals on my information they sell.
There are several text only forums I go to to find answers to obscure questions.
YouTube is becoming too big to wade through. Even in chest waders(a little fishing joke). Too much really bad information to sort through.
I have a FASO page that offers a large community of artists. Marketing, newsletters, direct sales at a 'sort of' reasonable price. They rely on FB for their forum support.
I have my own site that I have neglected over the past year. My New Year's resolution was to build it up. You know how that goes
This forum is good in it categorization ability. Built on Vanilla Forum platform. The lack of Mark Carder's influence has allowed it to drift off point.
(Edited for grammar and syntax)
Of course people who follow DMP are still artists in general with all the same challenges, questions, about art, paint, lighting, composition etc. which is whey there is such a wide variety of topic/sub forums and this IS a great place to discuss it all.
@Tassieguy – thanks for starting this discussion. Very interesting!
I am surprised at how many respondents have written that they do not use social media much or at all. I wonder if this is because many of us are more introverted than extroverted, or that we are older (except for me of course
), or that we are focused on an individual pursuit –
our painting – so we have less need of fulfillment from social media.
Of course, the DMP members who have not responded may be too busy on FB to respond. I wish there were some way to get members who are active on SM to respond so we could get their perspective.
FB is an appalling morass and I closed my account there five years ago. I'm too busy painting to waste time there. I've signed up on Instagram and occasionally look at paintings posted by those who are/were active members here but I never post my own work there because I don't think my gallery would be happy about it and because there seems to be very little serious discussion about painting. It seem to be all about how many "likes" you get. Sort of like FB. These platforms may offer something I'm not aware of but I can't find anything that would get me posting my work there. Maybe it's the possibility of marketing their work that attracts people there, which is fair enough, especially if one doesn't have other outlets to sell work. But I wonder how much people are actually able to sell through a platform like Instagram. And I wonder what sort of prices they are able to achieve for paintings that buyers can't actually see "in the flesh" on a wall and without representation by a gallery. It's all a bit of a mystery to me but there must be something there that's attracting people who used to post here to those platforms. Maybe I'm just too old and stuck in my ways to understand it.
I agree with what has been said by the others' experience of fb & yt on this thread.
Right now I have to "watermark" my photos of my paintings, before posting them.
At this point in time I would rather just be painting mostly.
I had the chance to rediscover & try out my new identity as a new oil painter and artist thanks to this DMP Forum. It's worth it for me to keep painting. I'm worthy of the success, rewards & gifts.
Thanks
Yes.
I prefer to try to engage on other platforms because of sales potential. Larger audience, etc. Posting on DMP seems to be only for the curiosity of others, or the ego. Sometimes for critique, which I prefer to get in real time from painting groups over Zoom. It's not ideal, but it's a visual medium for visual work.
Painting groups give critique more immediately on demand. It becomes a conversation. This is good when you're standing there with a brush, ready to consider and adopt the advice. Slow, considered feedback is also good, so not all immediate reactions are valuable.
Discord servers can also provide exactly this DMP experience. I use those too.
Hope this helps.