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Zorn Color Wheel

Color Wheel , maybe it could be useful for someone




JuliannaForgiveness

Comments

  • For those who experiment with the Zorn Palette, but feel fustrated by their results keep two things in mind before giving up.  Anders Zorn's paints were of the 19th century; the Ivory Black then had a bluer undertone ...and he was using Vermilion and Lead White.  The modern Cadmium pigments were new around the time he died, and Titanium White wasn't common until after WW2.  Tinting strength of the Cadmiums and Titanium can overpower modern Ochre and Ivory Black.  You may need to adjust...  it's not you, but it might be your paints.
    JuliannaDatura
  • edited September 2019
    TedB said:
    For those who experiment with the Zorn Palette, but feel fustrated by their results keep two things in mind before giving up.  Anders Zorn's paints were of the 19th century; the Ivory Black then had a bluer undertone ...and he was using Vermilion and Lead White.  The modern Cadmium pigments were new around the time he died, and Titanium White wasn't common until after WW2.  Tinting strength of the Cadmiums and Titanium can overpower modern Ochre and Ivory Black.  You may need to adjust...  it's not you, but it might be your paints.
    @TedB What you're saying is right. Black's are slightly lesser blue but titanium white does help it to push towards blue but then yellow ochre becomes pinkish with titanium white. For reds, I guess it is better to see it as warm red rather than a strict cadmium red light. White is the biggest game changer here. It would be better to use a Flake White (lead+titanium) or in absence of lead, Flake White Hue (Titanium + Zinc).
    DaturaJulianna
  • @TedB @kaustavM For those determined to try Zorn's palette they may find similar paints over at https://www.naturalpigments.com/
    JuliannaForgiveness
  • I was talking to Golden about this mid summer.  The paint tech over there had not heard of Zorn, but did tell me their Ivory Black has zero blue in it.  He recommended Payne's Gray.  One of the benefits of Zorn is you get colour harmony, as well as a particular look.  If modern paints are not similar to those Zorn had, then the harmony advantage is whatever one makes of it, which is back to the beginning.
    Forgiveness
  • edited December 2019
    It wasn't unusual that Zorn would include cobalt blue in his palette of colors.
     I'm inclined to paint with his palette in the near future as I have the colors that I need. And I can try one using Chinese vermillion and another using cadmium red or cr light. I also understand that Zorn preferred Chinese vermillion for his portraits in particular for the pink hue in it,  considered great for flesh tones and lips. Many different flesh tones were quickly arrived at using this palette. Efficiency was of great importance.
  • If you're not familiar with the difference between lead white, zinc and titanium white, there's an interesting Michael Harding YouTube video demonstrating several of their whites mixed with the same yellow, red and blue.  Modern paints are different than paints commonly available and used 100 years ago.  Not necessarily better or worse, just different.  And the changes in tinting-strength and transparency can be profound.



    All hues can be reached eventually with any limited palette within the available gamut, but how conveniently considering the "mixing costs" and the vagaries between antique artisan pigments and modern synthetic industrial pigments.  I'd second TamDeal's recomendation of paynes gray instead of ivory black for it's blue-bias.  I recently found it's usefulness coming from a different direction on my palette, I was using it and burnt umber to mix warm and cool grays for low-chroma studies instead of neutral tint.

    While I don't do portraiture, I have been using Mr. Carder's method and palette for still life studies; adding yellow ochre and paynes gray to widen the gamut slightly.  For outdoors doing landscape studies I've added sap green.  With so-much "green", it's convenient to have a fixed starting point on the palette.  It's still is only 8 tubes to cover a rather expansive gamut.

    For watercolors outdoors, I use basically the same palette but with phthalo blue added to mix sky and water since there's no titanium white.
    MichaelD
  • Although yellow ochre is much cheaper you should be able to mix it with the 5 pigments in the DMP method?
  • But as an earth pigment, the effects are difference.  Add blue to yellow it goes geenish.  Add blue to ochre and it desaturates towards a tan.  That makes it useful for clouds when mixed with white where you have warm grays and cool grays.
  • I didn't mean mix it and use it as a yellow ochre replacement as the colour mixes would be different. But in terms of gamut if you are premixing string of colours you don't need it.

    In terms of price, lightfastness, and opacity then that is a different decision :)
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