Blue Ridge lead white


  • Kaustav

    Extract from materials safety data sheet on lead carbonate.
    Warning! May cause kidney damage. May cause central nervous system effects. Causes eye and skin irritation. Causes digestive and respiratory tract irritation. May cause reproductive and fetal effects. May cause cancer based on animal studies. May cause blood abnormalities. Very toxic to aquatic organisms. Target Organs: Kidneys, central nervous system, blood forming organs.
    Please be super aware of the effect on your children and pets. Please never sand paper this product and keep it clear of water supply and waste water systems. Please also dispose of studio waste properly.

    People who work with this insidious, horrible poison are blood tested regularly and work in full chem suits with masks and breathing apparatus.

  • @dencal Thanks Denis. I keep my paints away from my boy as he's becoming more and more attracted to the paints.  I work with cadmiums and now leads. Plus God know what do they put inside eve an iron oxide paint. I lock my studio (when I'm not using) so that he can't access anything.

    But you're right. I need to do something about cleaning the paint stains from my hands and disposing tissues etc.
  • Did you watch to a certain video featuring Virgil Elliot too?
  • @Intothevoid yes, but I wanted to buy a lead white for the last eight years so. Just didn't know about Blue Ridge, RGH etc. or didn't have the money for foreign imports. :)

  • kaustavM well congrats on being able to get hold of some. I have to say that video was absolutely fascinating and a real eye opener on so many ideas and misconceptions about art and material.
  • @Intothevoid that 's nice yes. But I would still have to look at the things that I can afford to buy continuously and get the best possible ones rather than going for stuff like linen or lead white that are amazingly expensive.
  • I have some lead white from Natural Pigments and its nice but anything I mix with it dries overnight.  Blue Ridge paint is made about 100 miles from my house.  Another safety note, their original factory burned down due to a pile of oily rags left to self ignite in the corner.  
  • Fantastic!!!!!    I'm so happy you got some.
  • @MikeDerby Good that you reminded me. I keep my oil rags just like that without throwing them away. Need to dispose off these things.

  • Julianna said:
    Fantastic!!!!!    I'm so happy you got some.
    @Julianna Yeah! Finally got them. These will be used for special paintings. I got a message from Rolf Haerem (RGH paints) two days back. Checked his website. They are even cheaper than Blue Ridge. Thinking of buying some Lead Sulphate later. 

    These makers are selling them so cheap that I can't believe! No need to go for those hallowed manufacturers!

  • Cheap lead white sounds nice - it is expensive here in Canada and not available in most places. I've been thinking of harassing my local art stores to start carrying that and also lead oil grounds

    Also you might want to confirm with the manufacturer that there isnt any zinc in the paint.

    I recently contacted geneva and they confirmed there is no zinc in their titanium white. Apparently old holland titanium white has it but its not listed on the tube
  • While I'm not too-concerned about hazardous paints, I would like to avoid contaminating my septic system with solvents, lead, cadmiums and pigments in general; my well draws from 300ft. beneath my house so in-theory I could cross-contaminate both.  Right now I'm avoiding cadmiums, though at some point I'd like to try lead white.  Blue Right Oils are great stuff...

    One technique I like the feel-of is draining the brush-cleaning and watercolor water into a 5-gallon pail and letting it evaporate.  Then every year or so throw the dry contents away.

    Sources seem to differ between using non-clumping clay-based kitty litter versus granular vermiculite.  My cats get the good stuff, crushed walnut shells.  But at $30/44-lbs it's too expensive.  I do have a sack of pine shavings-based kitty litter and a container of recycled paper  litter that I've tried...but the cats hated it!  And they out-number me...

    Any thoughts or real-world experiences?
  • I use Old Holland white. What's the problem with the zinc in it?

  • edited July 2019
    I use Holbein H413 titanium white WP6 (similar to Old Holland), also occasionally Holbein H415 permanent white WP6 for its transparent qualities.
  • @Veronique it causes cracking and delamination. Avoid it in paint and grounds (lots of oil primed linen is primed with zinc too)

    You can email them and tell them to stop using it.. If enough people do this maybe they will listen! Search for natural pigments zinc and read their articles on the topic. It has come up on this forum lots recently too
  • Sigh.  I was paying extra for old holland in the belief that it was a better product.  The Sydney art store only carries holbein water colours but they do carry a brand called Archival. Does anyone here use that?

  • edited July 2019
    @CJD no need to worry. Its on their website. 

    • Pigment White 1 – Basic Lead Carbonate
    • Milled in walnut and safflower oil blend
    • Warm – Semi Transparent
    • Just lead carbonate, no other white added like the Flake white, which contains titanium white
  • CJDCJD -
    edited July 2019
    @Veronique I'm pretty sure I read the old holland lead white had zinc in it. Could be wrong really...

    @Kaustav that might be bad news.. I've been reading that safflower oil is no good because it is semi-drying. Natural pigments did some testing with impasto swatches of safflower oil based paint and found the oil never dried and leaked out over a period of years. Might be wrong about this too I've been reading a lot lately but it's worth looking into. George from natural pigments and Virgil both seem to say linseed and walnut are the only acceptable oils to use

    What's the drying time on that lead white like? The rublev one dries almost instantly it's crazy. I wonder if it still dries as fast with the walnut and safflower oil. The test i mentioned wasnt with lead white

  • edited July 2019
    @CJD everything's very valid but I'm happy with this paint at this point  :) Virgil is an authority but I can only buy what I can afford. I'm in his group but most of the time it's all about what someone shouldn't do. I'm focusing mostly on what I can do. I hope you don't mind me saying but things are just too expensive. 
  • @Kaustav yeah it is really expensive. I'm going all out prepping some linen the way it's recommended by him and will adhere it to panel and everything and use the best paints.. but I'm only going to use those expensive materials for the paintings I know for sure will turn out well and will be ones I want to last (and will be able to sell)

    Doing every painting with the most expensive materials would be way too much.

    It's also more of a hassle painting with paints that dry overnight and having to put a lot of effort into panel prep and everything compared to using Geneva on acrylic-primed dibond
  • @CJD well, these days keeping it simple isn't simple anymore!
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