Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

You can send an email to [email protected] if you have questions about how to use this forum.

Halos of seeping oil around brush marks

SummerSummer -
edited June 15 in Painting

Anyone else experiencing this phenomenon?  When I put down a brushstroke, the next day, the brushstroke has a halo of oil around it that is visible on the canvas.  Most of my darks, two values, are in on this second canvas that I have started and it looks a real mess.

I'm using newly created materials of double oil-primed Claessens #13 Belgian linen on aluminum and Mark's dark canvas stain.

The paints are Geneva and I'm shaking the vinyl tubes thoroughly before use.

The paint is perfect to paint with when it comes out of the tubes--thoroughly mixed.

Should I be concerned or just keep painting over these halos? 

Thanks guys. 

Summer  :)


Comments

  • That is the absorbent nature of the linen and stain soaking up some of the oil. Was the linen primed before you applied the canvas stain?
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 14
    Richard_P said:
    That is the absorbent nature of the linen and stain soaking up some of the oil. Was the linen primed before you applied the canvas stain?
    Yes.  Should I paint over these halos thereby compounding the oil problem? 
  • An oil based primer and stain (Mark's) should be less absorbent than an acrylic one. It shouldn't compromise the paint film as it's oil rich with the medium. I think it would be fine to carry on.
    marieb
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 15
    Thanks.  I have more investigative work to do on this and will let you know what I find out.  There were other problems as well.   :)   
  • I had trouble with pre-primed Claessens Belgian linen - the paint sunk in almost immediately (well, overnight at least). I had to scrap what I started, and put on an extra couple of coats of primer (it had to be oil-based, as that's what the pre-primer was). It is now behaving. I wasn't very impressed, given the cost of it.
    Summermarieb
  • Roxy said:
    I had trouble with pre-primed Claessens Belgian linen - the paint sunk in almost immediately (well, overnight at least). I had to scrap what I started, and put on an extra couple of coats of primer (it had to be oil-based, as that's what the pre-primer was). It is now behaving. I wasn't very impressed, given the cost of it.
    Mark used to use the pre-primed Claessens Belgian linen but now he says: "If you buy pre-stretched canvas, I recommend Centurion brand primed linen canvas." 
    Roxy
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 15
    @Summer i have that with geneva paint on gesso.. Can see some oil being soaked in the gesso around the paint. I haven't worried about it though. I do 5 coats of gesso doubt the oil will get through it all
    Thanks.  We shouldn't have to work this hard AFTER we purchase these products!  I remember you saying once before about 5 coats of gesso.  I think you have made sure that you are covered!
    marieb
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 15

    The oil is too pervasive for me to continue using these panels.  Still moving forward though.  The next panels should work--tinted Rustoleum on larger aluminum panels after sanding the surfaces.   I don't have the panels I need, just ordered them tonight, but I do have leftover Rustoleum from testing  on smaller sizes last year. 

    Summer
  • Summer

    Bleed off some excess oil on paper before you paint.

    Denis

    Summer
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 15
    dencal said:
    Summer

    Bleed off some excess oil on paper before you paint.

    Denis

    Good idea and I've been doing that occasionally for years but for this painting I remarked to my husband how beautifully homogenized these paints were to paint with after they had been through the shaker contraption we built.  For the first time, on a slanted palette, no oil separating from the paints at all--until it sets overnight on a canvas!  The next night is even worse.  No oil separating on the slanted palette at all.  I may be wrong but I believe the problem is with the primer used on the linen--not enough or needed to be a better quality.  The consistency of the Geneva paints are perfect and I wouldn't want them to be any more or less oily.      
    dencal
  • dencaldencal -
    edited June 15
    Summer

    OK. But before you commit to several acres of aluminium and rustoleum, test the paint on there and see if there is a similar problem. Don't get me wrong I love aluminium and rustoleum, just don't like the thought of dumping the linen panels for the wrong reason.

    Denis

    mariebcadia
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 15
    I don't like the idea of dumping the linen either so I will give your idea a try tomorrow.  Thanks.
  • BOB73BOB73 -
    edited June 15
    I think you should contact Geneva and see what they say. The other thing in my  mind is "is it possible to over shake?" maybe after the vigorous shaking they need to set for a while. Maybe @Gamble_Nelkin can shed some light on this.
    SummerRenoir
  • Summer

    1 to 2% Aluminium stearate will bind the oil to the paint and stop the oil migration.
    Non toxic, used in food and cosmetics as a stabiliser.

    http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac/wn/wn23/wn23-3/wn23-304.html

    Denis

    Summermarieb
  • I can do that!  Thanks, Denis.  :)
  • PaulBPaulB mod
    edited June 16
    @Summer: Halo around painted area:


    It happens every time I put thick paint on a panel, then don't touch it for a week.  If the paint goes on thin enough it doesn't happen.

    It's just solvents following a density gradient.  I ignore it.
    Summer
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 16
    Thanks @PaulB.  I'm going to get to the bottom of this problem.  It's certainly one of the things suggested here.  I'm trying them all and will let you know which one it was/is beginning with painting more thinly--the density gradient.  I can do that, and probably should routinely unless an area calls for several applications of paint just to cover it.  Thanks.  Summer
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 16

    I found the aluminum stearate here if anyone else is interested in using this product as well:  https://www.naturalpigments.com/aluminum-stearate.html

    Summer

    dencal
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 17
    When a painting surface is too porous and absorbent, or paints are too oily, haloing will occur.  That is what my experiments have shown so far.  I've also determined that the Geneva paints were not the problem with the massive haloing that occurred on a painting I was working on recently because, in a subsequent experiment with a paper towel, all of the oil haloed within an hour and the paints were unusable.  So, as they are, Geneva paints are perfect.  Also not the problem were Mark's original stain recipes.  I've used both.  I'm not having any haloing effect on those canvasses at all.  That leaves the last part of the experiment which will take several more days.  I'm experimenting with the new Geneva canvas stain that is sold in tubes, the same ones that resulted in haloing recently.  One panel has one coat, the other panel has two coats.  I already know what happens when I put on two coats of canvas stain.  I'm thinking that if I had only put on one coat of canvas stain haloing would not be happening to this extent because the surface would have been less porous.  But we'll see. Hmm.  I should also mention that when I put Geneva paints directly on the linen surface of the New York Central aluminum panels, there is no haloing.  But I don't like painting on a white canvas.  I need to find a good fast drying oil-based canvas stain for these panels PDQ.  Years ago, I used to use burnt umber and wipe off the excess with a rag and let it set until dry.  I will most likely, when I'm finished experimenting in a few days, go back to using Mark's original stain recipes.  Either one.  They both work beautifully.  No haloing whatsoever.  Thanks @dencal, @Richard_P, @PaulB, @BOB73, @Roxy, and @movealonghome.  Gosh, every one of your comments was immensely helpful--and so varied!   :)   Summer      
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 20
    Putting Geneva paint on a single layer of Geneva Canvas Stain.
    Putting Geneva Paint on double thin layer of Geneva Canvas Stain.
    Then, I let it set for a day or two.

  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 20
    Something to report about the Geneva canvas stain.  At this time, 24 hrs. in, the Geneva paint, through no fault of its own, is seeping, weeping, haloing, whatever it is called.  After two days, it is not possible to continue painting because the stain I used is too porous.  It seems only to be a problem after applying the second coat of canvas stain.  The second coat is too porous.  I will continue to use the Geneva stain but apply only one coat in the future which will be less porous.  Also important to know is that I was careful to apply only thin coats of canvas stain.  The problem of why excessive haloing occurred a few days ago has thus been identified and solved now as far as I am concerned.  I haven't heard anything further from @Weatherford and others who were asking questions about the Geneva stain.  I hope this helps to answer some of their questions. In summary,  the color is darker than the original foundation stain recipes.  I like using the Geneva canvas stain when I apply only one thin layer.  No excessive haloing when I use the product in this way.  If anything changes in the next few days, I will mention it here.  Another 24 hrs. before the testing is over.  Summer   
    marieb
  • Today, I realized that I must have gotten a bad batch of canvas stain because the test samples from another tube are now showing reasonable haloing enough so that single and double applications of canvas stain are fine to paint on.  Now I really do have 3 wonderful recipes of foundation stain to use.  I just have to take my chances and hope for the best--that I don't get a bad batch again.  Onward! 
    marieb
  • I really don't see how this is a problem.  Its oil paint.  Just paint over it.  I normally oil out before I paint anyway.
    Summer
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 21
    @MikeDerby ; I'm am going to continue to paint on that canvas just to see what happens--following your advice and that of several other members as well.  I have never seen haloing in that amount.  It has distorted the strokes made by the paintbrush.  I'm hoping it was just a one-off.  Time will tell now.  Thanks folks for giving me the confidence to paint over it anyway as though the excessive haloing were not a problem.   :)   Summer 
Sign In or Register to comment.