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Geneva Foundation Colour

The tubes of Geneva foundation paint that I've been using seem to be very, very dark. Much darker than the "cardboard colour" that he discusses and makes on his videos. I've made than, and it worked well.

This is definitely easier, but in order to get even close to a neutral colour, I have to wipe it off the canvas with a rag.

Plus, it often feels like it rejects the paint - that is, the paint comes off the canvas rather than laying own on it.

Anyone else with these issues?

Thanks.

Comments

  • I've found it to be dark as well as much more brown than neutral, but that may be because of the lighting in my studio that is subpar... have not had the issue with paint being rejected though.
  • SummerSummer -
    edited April 25
    @JessicaArt ; You have these issues even after applying two thin coats?  I'm surprised and puzzled myself that you are having these issues.  Summer



  • edited April 25
    Yes, I do, Summer. Ive done two light coats, two rubbed off coats, one hear coat - you name it, It remains very dark - too dark. And slippery.

    Perhaps it is the batch? I have used two different tubes of it.

    I have excellent lighting in the studio.
  • SummerSummer -
    edited April 26
    @Weatherford ; Is it possible to send JPEGS to Geneva about this problem?  I'm sure they will send you replacement tubes from another batch if the second one didn't work out for you either.  The stain color I have is noticeably dark but I haven't actually applied it to a surface yet.  Now I'm afraid to.  I've only used Mark's original recipe over the past several years sprayed on with a shop air compressor and they turned out exceptionally well--two coats.  You may have to return to his original recipe.  Summer      
  • @Weatherford ;  I must say, the video was informative and the product really looked good.  I'm going to actually use the product next week and see if I have the same problem.  I hope you find a resolution.  Summer 
  • I thought I'd get back to you on the canvas stain.  Yes.  I agree.  Way darker than I expected.  Just finished the first coat on 5 aluminum panels covered with Claessens linen.  Don't know yet if it will make a difference.  
  • Using the original recipe with alkyd paint I ended up putting way too much paint on the panels and it took months to harden enough to sand. once sanded they were ok. Could being to dark be an indication that you are putting too much paint on the canvas? Spraying light coats sounds like a good alternative but not everyone has the equipment.
  • I hear what you are saying, @BOB73.  I'm not worried.  If Denis can paint on black stained canvas or whatever, I can paint on this.  :)  I think we, here, were all surprised at the very dark brown because it is many values darker than the color Mark uses under his glass palettes and shows us in his videos.  We might have trouble judging values accurately with this dark stain.  But I think that can be overcome with awareness.  I have yet to paint on this surface--another week.  But I like the consistency of the canvas stain, the protective metal seal, the easy pour spout, and the easy application with a 4"  foam roller.  I decided not to use the original recipe and spray with the shop compressor this time.  I may go back to that.  This will need two coats to get full coverage like with the original recipe.  Summer  
  • I have painted on the foundation and I am pretty impressed with it. I rolled mine on with a small 3 inch roller and it produced a surface that preserved the texture of the canvas (not something I really liked) so next time I plan to brush it on. Painting it on seems to make a really smooth surface, with minimum texture.  
    Summer
  • I’ve stained my canvas with the recipe because I forgot to order the stain. Does it really need 2 coats? One coat looked pretty covered to me and I want to get started as soon as my paints arrive but I also want to do it right.
  • PaulBPaulB mod
    Summer said:
    ... We might have trouble judging values accurately with this dark stain. ...
    That raises a point I find interesting.

    If we color check everything, the color of the stain has no bearing at all.  In fact, if we can get the desired coverage, the stain is unnecessary, or is maybe just a contributor to the surface texture.  When we color-check, there is no need to judge values, and we could be painting on a bright red canvas, provided we get coverage.

    So given that, an ideal stain is something that matches the average value of the final painting.  Something that minimizes coverage issues given the overall tone of the painting.  A good general choice therefore might be a value 3 gray.  A predominantly blue painting should have a mid-value blue stain.  This is why Douglas Flynt paints his pictures twice.
  • SummerSummer -
    edited June 6
    Veronique said:
    I’ve stained my canvas with the recipe because I forgot to order the stain. Does it really need 2 coats? One coat looked pretty covered to me and I want to get started as soon as my paints arrive but I also want to do it right.
    I don't think it really matters, one or two coats.  I prefer a more opaque painting surface, so I put on two.  I'd like to see what others think though.  The fault could be the applicator or the surface of the linen the reason it needs two coats.  Millions of white specks are showing through after one coat.  This is not an unusual phenomenon in my experience.  I just deal with it and spray, paint, or roll on another coat.
  • edited June 1
    PaulB said:
    Summer said:
    ... We might have trouble judging values accurately with this dark stain. ...
    That raises a point I find interesting.

    If we color check everything, the color of the stain has no bearing at all.  In fact, if we can get the desired coverage, the stain is unnecessary, or is maybe just a contributor to the surface texture.  When we color-check, there is no need to judge values, and we could be painting on a bright red canvas, provided we get coverage.

    So given that, an ideal stain is something that matches the average value of the final painting.  Something that minimizes coverage issues given the overall tone of the painting.  A good general choice therefore might be a value 3 gray.  A predominantly blue painting should have a mid-value blue stain.  This is why Douglas Flynt paints his pictures twice.
    I've thought about this too.. I use tubed paint with walnut and clove oil. Here is my thinking:

    In terms of colours and values with a 5 colour system (as in Mark's method) the pigments with the most opacity are iron oxide blacks, iron oxide reds, and chromium green. If you mix iron oxide reds with iron oxide blacks you get a range of dark orange-dark red-dark purple (effectively brown colours). The blues tend to more transparent, but if you mix ultramarine with Pthtalo blue you can get darker versions which when mixed with white still have good chroma and opacity.

    So the dark colours can be made very opaque. The dark/mid range colour of the reds can be resolved to some extent with a good cadmium red / iron oxide red. Adding quincridone red can give it a purple tint without overly affecting the opacity.

    So that leaves the light colours of white and cadmium yellow which are more transparent. I haven't found a fluid cadmium yellow (even geneva) which is as opaque as other colours. You either have to use multiple layers, mix with a lower chroma yellow (iron oxide) or paint thicker. The white is better, but it's still not as opaque as the blacks/browns you can make with iron oxide pigments.

    Because of this I reasoned that the issues with transparency are primarily in the lightest values (white and yellow) - therefore I paint on a white background to reduce the transparency costs for white and yellow (less difference in values when painting over white than a mid or dark valued stain). It should also mean in the very long term that when oil paints age and go more transparent that the colours don't become muddier.
    tassieguyBOB73Summer
  • So sorry! I never got the notification of the mention above in april! Im wondering if my seeing a more brown than neutral had to do with my lighting... now that I bought 5000k lights it looks neutral as it should the spot under the jockey here is the geneva stain (not the sky although it looks awful close! haha) .the stain looks just right to me. 
  • @Summer  I've been away from the boards and missed your comments - didn't do that, although I think I should have. I am using another batch and it is better, but I may just make my own - this is still too dark and does impact my colours. Having fun with it regardless. Maybe the new paint formulation will make a difference, too. But I am loathe to start using them until I finish the old tubes ;)

    @JessicaArt Love your painting - but the background colour looks much more grey than cardboard to me  is it ht light or my monitor? Or my eyes.... ;)

    Summer
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