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Need Help - Geneva Paints on oil primed linen

edited April 10 in Studio & Supplies
I do hope someone here can help me.  I have been oil painting off and on since the 3rd grade - I am
not completely naïve to oil paints and their tendencies.  I have painted on various surfaces in my life and different grades of oil paints and experimented with many different medium cocktails.

However, I have never painted on linen in my life until about a month ago.  I purchased
a large role of  - Pissaro Professional oil primed linen   http://www.jerrysartarama.com/canvas-surfaces/canvas-rolls/oil-primed-canvas-rolls/pissarro-professional-oil-primed-linen

I am having trouble with my Geneva paints feeling like they are "sliding" on the surface - even when I glob paint on - it looks like it is transparent the next day - even my whites.  I always prime my canvases so as not to fight the white of the canvas - my last wash of the canvas was with mineral spirits and burnt umber/white mixture and let it set for 2 days -  I am still having the same issues with feeling like the surface is not accepting my paints.

I am thoroughly confused.  I have googled oil primed linen problems and don't seem to find anyone else having these issues.  I want to love linen but am not pleased with how it is reacting.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions - I love my Geneva oil paints and am getting used to a limited palette and find it quite refreshing.  Right now, I'd rather paint on a cheap Michael's canvas than my nice linen canvas.

Comments

  • dencaldencal -
    edited April 10
    Julianna

    What does the label on the linen say about the factory surface treatment? What does the website say?

    Pissarro linen is also primed to perfection in five stages: two layers of glue sizing to isolate the canvas, two coats of acrylic priming to allow for tight stretching, and one coat of luxurious, non-absorbent, warm-hued oil priming that allows oil colors to sit on the surface for a luminous effect. Create all your largest oil paintings on the finest linen available: Pissarro Professional Oil Primed Linen Rolls!

    Try trimming off some test pieces. Lightly sandpaper one, lightly oil another, alcohol clean another, leave one untreated as a control and apply paint to all in the normal way. If any or all of these are ok, it could be some surface incompatibility from the turpsy wash. Examine the results with a magnifying glass under good light and note the differences.

    A slippery surface is a frequent problem with linen. I suspect some silicone contamination.

    Here is a link to Sopie Ploeg's page about supports. She loves slippery linen?



    Keen to know how it turns out.

    Denis

    Julianna
  • oh my goodness gracious @dencal ;   thank you so much for responding so promptly and with such great advice.  I will do all of your suggestions in the morning.  I would post photos of my paintings in progress on the linen but they have turned into such rubbish that I shan't trouble other's eyes with the gore.
    So the differences with the magnifying glass should be observed in a day?, 2 days?, when shall I make my experiment?   what will be alarming under the magnifying glass vs. others (sorry for my ignorance with detailing my canvas texture).
     
    Truly, thank you again,
  • Julianna

    Make observations on application of the paint. Another set of obs at say a week and the important obs when touch dry.

    The magnifying glass and good light may show, beading, silicone paint resistance, transparency, reflectivity, surface tension presence / absence, absorbency etc.

    Denis

    JuliannaBOB73
  • is there an oil color that I should use that will yield results better?  white, yellow, red,blue, burnt umber, black == or a combination of some pigments?  I can't wait to find out what is wrong or what I am doing wrong.
  • dencaldencal -
    edited April 10
    Julianna

    Ideally, you want good results from all of your pigments. The Cadmiums, umber and titanium are opaque the blue and red are transparent, at least in W&N, I don't have Geneva here yet.

    The key to good coverage, if that is your aim, is pigment load, consistency or viscosity and a receptive surface.

    Wear gloves during the testing. Fingerprints are deadly. Handle test pieces by their edges.

    Denis



  • @dencal   the experiment is going well, thank you for the advice.  I am already seeing that any medium used on the oil primed canvas is losing it's pigment and has almost no coverage.  The best so far is the sanded part and the untreated part.  I have to wait for my tint primed area to dry before applying the paint there - it is looking like those pigments may fair well as well.  My test squares consist of 1. sanded surface 2. tint primed with light wash and darker, heavier tint (BU,W,white spirits) 3.  Untreated with anything 4. "Oiled out" with Liquin (I use liquin frequently) 5. Oiled out with linseed oil 6. Oiled out with a cocktail I have used for years (70% white spirit 30% sun very thick linseed oil)    I'll post photos but as I said, I want to make sure the tinted swatches are dry before applying paint there.
       I am also using Geneva oil paints and comparing that with similar hues of mainly Rembrandt and Charvin oil paints (just checking about medium in Geneva affect).
  • Julianna

    Sounds good. A sure way to build knowledge, experience and skill. Big improvement on annecdote and hearsay.

    Denis

    Julianna
  • edited April 11


    I know this looks like a hot mess but I used Geneva oil paints on the top and either Rembrandt or Charvin oil colour on the bottom part of each segment =  I am learning that anything with medium is a killer for the oil primed linen.  None of these are dry yet as I started this experiment this morning.  I do find it interesting that the lightly tinted and the "nothing done" seem to be the best for the pigments.  My oiled out with various mediums are horrible.  No wonder I am struggling so much with painting on linen! 
    dencal
  • The mediums up close - the worst was the homemade 70%turp/30% sundried thick linseed oil
    dencal
  • Julianna

    Great progress. If you still yearn for a compatible toning layer, try ink+water, ink+alcohol, or diluted wm oils, or even an acrylic.

    I think you nave a new test series? Amazing how an answer creates more questions.

    Denis

    Julianna
  • edited April 11
    it is clear that I need to use very little medium for better coverage.  It still feels slippery - like painting oil on oil.  grease on grease.  I am not sure that I like oil primed linen - I will keep trying.  I will post some of my paintings from this week.  I taped sheets of linen to foam core board for the experiments.  I have stretcher bars in various sizes if I choose to frame/display something later. 
    my first painting on linen - all Geneva oil paints - I found that I couldn't get fine detail lines and the next day, the grasses seemed smeared.

    My second painting on the linen using flowers from my garden - it was like painting grease on grease and hard to get anything to "stick" - very slippery feel. -
    The next two photos are where I decided to give up, my lilacs are in bloom and also my jasmine so I arranged a still life and just couldn't get the paint to stick - felt very slimy - I primed this canvas with a yellow ochre wash and mineral spirits and let it dry before painting - the black background was sliding all over the place      I should be embarrassed to post these photos but this is reality.  I want to love oil primed linen but am struggling horribly right now. 

    dencalRonHopEstherHPaulB
  • Julianna

    Love the landscape and roses. 

    Denis

  • edited April 11
    @dencal ;   can I use acrylic on oil primed linen????  that would be awesome as I usually block in a canvas or board in acrylic so as to get to painting faster.  I read several times that was a no-no but I would love that!  Acrylic block in.  Sorry, I have been oil painting off and on for a long time so I do not follow the exact Carder method (which is why I am used to blocking in and free sketching initially).  I do love the Geneva oil paints, the color checker and the brush dip is genius!!!  If I could block in my initial shapes with acrylic and without problems on the linen, that would be amazing for me.
  • dencaldencal -
    edited April 11
    Julianna

    I was suggesting methods for obtaining a non oily, thin and watery, toning layer that would be a receptive surface for oil paint. 

    Save your acrylic block in technique for the Ampersand Gessobords and acrylic gesso canvas.

    Denis

    BOB73
  • somesome -
    edited April 11
    FWIW, i encountered the same thing using Gamblin's Ground on a board and some oil-primed linen. Freaked me out at first. For my own taste, I scratch them up a tiny bit with some 220 or 120 grit sandpaper, and then I start with a thin wash of thinner/damar and paint over the whole canvas/board with a nuetral color that kindof goes with the color scheme. I wipe off the excess, then I paint. I like just a tiny bit of "sticky" drag on my brush. 
    BOB73Julianna
  • You may benefit from thicker paint. I found that mixing W&N colors with Geneva was the perfect combination of slow dry with butter like consistency and pigment load. When layering on wet, load your brush and a very light touch. 
    BOB73JuliannaEstherH
  • I found some more help after re-reading some parts of Alla Prima II - Richard Schmid states to not use any medium or thinner on initial paint layer with oil primed linen - to scumble the pure paint colors in block-in/initial paint layers - after thin turp/paint stain has dried (get rid of white canvas).  I am still struggling with covering my previous painting studies - I think I used way too much medium initially so will probably have to just throw those linen sheets away.  So glad I hadn't already stretched them onto stretcher bars.  i'll just peel the tape and dump. 
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