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Oil Paint Color Temperature - Split Primaries

Hello,
I couldn't find a conversation and/or reference to the split primary color temperatures subject and the available Geneva Paint primaries,  so I thought I'd throw this out there. 
Wondering how the limited palette / 3 Geneva primaries (Cad Yellow, Pyrrole Rubine & French Ultramarine) are related to with respect to the split primary story.  

Any insights and/or references are appreciated.

Thanks,
Albert

Comments

  • SummerSummer -
    edited December 2016
    @Albert ; All I know from reading online is that they, not DMP, are still trying to agree on whether some of the colors are either warm or cool or not.  For instance is ultramarine a cool or warm color?  Is phthalo blue a cool or warm color?  Don't know if this topic will gather force here on the forum but there are online resources that delve into the questions you ask.  Summer 
  • SummerSummer -
    edited January 2017
    Thank you @AlunapR for taking the time to create this interesting explanation about the color wheel, hue, value, chroma, bias (warm and cool concepts), and for putting them into perspective as they relate to painting with pigmented color, the Carder palette, and science.  Summer
  • Thank you @AlunapR :)

    I agree with what you said which corresponds very well to what I've read on Handprint.com


  •  I'm gonna get a PHD in art just from reading this forum. Thanks @AlunapR and thanks to all. this is really inspiring but I think I'm going to take Kingston's advice because Mark's course keeps things simple  and practical for me. As I get more experience I'll revisit the split primary question.
  • edited January 2017
    @Richard_P, Handprint is an excellent resource, that guy really understands his stuff. Recommended. Also, since 'colour' is a psychological phenomenon, not a physical one, I could recommend http://webvision.med.utah.edu for an in-depth discussion. The Munsell book of colour is extremely expensive, but the Munsell Student Color Set is a lot cheaper, and well worth the money for a good understanding of how to think about colour. But keep in mind that the main thing you are interested in is how to create in paint a colour that matches a particular point on your subject, and to place it on the correct place on the canvas. This is what Mark teaches, better than anyone else, I think.

    And in case anyone gets the idea from my earlier post that because you can get a larger gamut by choosing each of your colours to be the highest chroma possible (which is true) that you should do so, rather than some of the more muted colours that Mark chooses (like Burnt Umber and Rubine Red/Permanent Alizarin Crimson/Perylene Maroon and similar) remember that Marvin Mattelson originally used Frank J. Reilly's palette which had lots of Cadmiums, but found that his students struggled to control these strong colours. He then took William MacGregor Paxton's palette of Yellow Ochre, Indian Red, Terra Rosa, Raw Umber, Ivory Black and Flake White and found both he and his students had a much easier time getting to the colours they needed for portraiture. Like Mark, he kept a few stronger colours 'in reserve' (in Mattelson's case, Ultramarine Blue, Cadmium Yellow Light, Cadmium Scarlet, Alizarin Crimson and Viridian) for just those times when he needed more chroma.

    So there are real advantages in having a limited palette that offsets the theoretical disadvantage of not being able to achieve every colour possible with paints.
  • AlunapR

    Welcome back to the Forum. Where ya bin?

    Denis

  • edited January 2017
    @dencal Been busy with many things, but not too much painting. I have been drawing, and some watercolour and gouache, but this year I plan to do lots of oils, starting with a portrait of my wife. So, I'll probably be hanging around here more now. For those not aware, I used to be active in the original Carder Method forums some years ago, and in fact started oil painting using that method. Whatever else I do I always come back to the principles of that method.
  • edited January 2017
    Excellent points @AlunapR

    Also the lower chroma colours you listed (and other inorganic pigments) tend to be more opaque which suits Mark's single layer approach as well.
  • Wow!  Your explanations of these elusive color concepts are worth their weight in gold.  Finally I understand how and why Mark's system so successfully accommodates the many complexities of oil colors and color mixing. 
  • Thank you @AlunapR !
    and everyone else.
    Really appreciat the shared insights, dialogue and exploration.

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