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Irritated by Artists?

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Comments

  • No, not angry, @kaustav. Just explaining why I find extreme minimalism unsatisfying.
    KaustavRenoir
  • edited June 12
    @Kaustav
    You may have noticed from my responses that I am just having fun with it really, I am laughing at the absurdity of it. I guess that could be a metaphor for life. (oooh I've gone deep :o  )

    To me, I see that what happens in this video/performance is played (pardon the pun) out like a joke. It would not have looked out of place as a Monty Python sketch.

    When we tell a joke we set the scene for the listener like a little story, so the listener can at least establish what they think may happen. Then they are hit with the punchline which is not what they expected, it all goes into another direction. With the hopeful outcome that this surprise will make the listener laugh.

    Of course, as humour is subjective, it won't always have that response. And we know that this is true in art.

    So while there may be many who don't agree with me dismissing it as a joke, that they may have got something profound from it and consider that I have missed the point/meaning, thats fine.

    As for the blank canvas kind of art thats not my thing either, to me it represents a demonstration of non of the artists talents unless of course that is the extent of them. If its minimalist enough to require a title then I will go for Shear Laziness.

     :) 




  • MichaelD said:
    @Kaustav
    You may have noticed from my responses that I am just having fun with it really, I am laughing at the absurdity of it. I guess that could be a metaphor for life. (oooh I've gone deep :o  )

    To me, I see that what happens in this video/performance is played (pardon the pun) out like a joke. It would not have looked out of place as a Monty Python sketch.

    When we tell a joke we set the scene for the listener like a little story, so the listener can at least establish what they think may happen. Then they are hit with the punchline which is not what they expected, it all goes into another direction. With the hopeful outcome that this surprise will make the listener laugh.

    Of course, as humour is subjective, it won't always have that response. And we know that this is true in art.

    So while there may be many who don't agree with me dismissing it as a joke, that they may have got something profound from it and consider that I have missed the point/meaning, thats fine.

    As for the blank canvas kind of art thats not my thing either, to me it represents a demonstration of non of the artists talents unless of course that is the extent of them. If its minimalist enough to require a title then I will go for Shear Laziness.

     :) 




    @MichaelD I knew what you were saying and also understand how jokes work. :) but your comment about Sound of Silence suddenly changed how I was feeling about that piece...anyway it wasn't anything against you or against/favor that piece of music. I took something out of what you said that's all. 
  • edited June 12
    @Kaustav I am sure you do know how jokes work :)  I was merely describing it above for the similarities I find in the video to the structure of a joke.
    I didn't take your post as anything against me either. Perhaps things are being misconstrued as can happen when reading what people say as opposed to hearing it spoken. I know you will know that too  :)


    The intention with all my replies in this has been of humour.

    Its all good
     :) 
    Kaustav
  • @MichaelD I guess anything modern is controversial   :#  :p
    MichaelDBancroft414
  • Interesting discussion. I can really recommend the book “The Painted Word” by Tom Wolfe. It is a subjective, disrespectful and angry book, but hilarious in places. Quote from Wikipedia: “His [Tom Wolfe’s] stance was that modern art has moved away from being a visual experience, and more often was an illustration of art critics' theories.”

    I too get irritated, but normally not by artists. I think most artists are struggling to get by and adapt to an art world where the premises have been set by pompous and self-satisfied art theoreticians and critics. And the curators are playing along, trying to satisfy these premises. Because the art world is controlled, not by artists, but by a small circle of curators, theoreticians and critics, who have invented their own criteria for what art should be.  Oh, I could og on and on...😖

    But I don’t dislike abstract art as such - there is a lot of abstract art that I really like – paintings with gorgeous composition, colours and texture. I think the kind of art that @jodie2025 describes, is more of an example of conceptual art. As far as I have understood it, in conceptual art the theoretical explanation accompanying an image is more important than the image itself, so as long as you can create a lengthy theoretical explanation it does not really matter if the “image” that you present is actually nothing –

    As for John Cage’s piece 4' 33", I think perhaps it will be easier to accept (or dismiss) it if it is understood as a philosophical / theoretical exercise more than as a musical composition. As a foreign music student in England aeons ago I had to sit throught lots of such "listening" sessions, and what happened was that one became intensely aware of all sounds in the room – so perhaps a kind of mindfulness exercise. I did not find it very relaxing, though…😄

    MichaelDRenoirArtGal
  • edited June 12
    @Kaustav Good point, and you got me thinking about the kind of reaction there must have been to Picasso`s work when he was modern. It probably set the fires to debates that are still burning today (as other artists have through the ages).

    When I was a teenager I didn't particularly care for Picasso`s work. That changed as I aged to the point that now when ever I see The Weeping Woman it nearly always brings me to tears.


    Renoirjodie2025
  • MichaelD said:
    @Kaustav Good point, and you got me thinking about the kind of reaction there must have been to Picasso`s work when he was modern. It probably set the fires to debates that are still burning today (as other artists have through the ages).

    When I was a teenager I didn't particularly care for Picasso`s work. That changed as I aged to the point that now when ever I see The Weeping Woman it nearly always brings me to tears.


    @MichaelD Yeah. I'm not a modern art hater...and did several of my own. I feel the same about ''Guernica'...that hand, dead man, horse and the flash all speak to me. What I dislike is the way art separated from people since 1960s. That's why we are heading back to something more concrete.
    MichaelDRenoir
  • @Kaustav Can you tell me more about how art separated from people since 1960s ?

  • edited June 12
    @toneli I totally agree with your points about who the art world is controlled by. This happens in the music and film arts too. I suppose the good thing is that every now and then someone comes along to shake that up.


  • @MichaelD After the conceptual art. Here are a few examples...It isn't the same for an average viewer  to look at a Rembrandt/Titian/Constable or a Monet or even a Modigliani/Picasso et al. General public is somewhat disconnected.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=conceptual+art&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy0-X82ePiAhVp73MBHfSZDJsQ_AUIECgB&biw=1366&bih=625

     https://www.google.com/search?q=historic+paintings&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8odKc2uPiAhU1_XMBHaxQCmgQ_AUIECgB&biw=1366&bih=625
    MichaelD
  • Good points, @toneli - extreme minimalism is better thought of as the product of a certain theoretical/philosophical stance or the demonstration of a concept (vacuous or not) rather than actual art. 
    @MichaelD, I agree about Picasso. When I first saw Guernica I was gobsmacked and felt that I had truly apprehended and understood something really important about the power of art that had escaped me previously. Abstraction, patial or complete, can be great art. But, for me, extreme minimalism such as 4'33" or a white Square on White don't make the grade. But that's just me. As you say, appreciation can be a very personal business.
    KaustavMichaelDRenoir
  • edited June 12
    Lol, @Boudicca. How will you be pricing them? By the inverse sqaure inch method - the smaller the picture the more minimal it is and so the higher the price?  :)
    KaustavRenoirBancroft414
  • edited June 12
    @Kaustav, I see what you mean.

    I witnessed a definite disconnect with the general public when I was trying to take a look at Van Gogh`s Sunflowers in The National Gallery several months back.

    I naively thought that I would be able to stare at it meditatively for a while with the only disruption being that I would perhaps need to swap and take turns with others who had the same intensions.

    Unfortunately it was like a frenzied press conference with young adults of all nationalities jockeying for position to either get a selfie or group shot of themselves with the painting behind them. Each time a person or group had done this another would step in to do the same.

    I found it rather sad.
    KaustavtassieguyBancroft414
  • edited June 12
    I may have gone off topic a bit there anyhow.

    Back to the thread, blank canvasses and non performances of non existent music.

    I have decided to open a gallery there will be grand spaces and rooms for all to view the works of their choice.
    The walls will be totally blank and visitors can decide in their minds just what it is they want to see by imagining that it is right there in front of them. This includes, if you wish, imagining frames by the way.

    Music similar to 4'33" will be piped throughout the building, with the hope that it will not distract visitors too much, but enhance their experience.
    I say similar because if I actually use the piece itself I may have to pay royalties.

    So you are not even going to get blank or one coloured  covered canvases here, unless of course you have imagined them.

    I shall herald the whole enterprise as a -never been done before thing. That is until someone exposes the fact that so and so did it in such and such a year. Then I can say well its new to the newer generations.

    Entrance fee will be extortionate. That way you can kid yourself that there is a premium value in the whole experience.

    Exit, of course, by the gift shop. Here you can buy prints of everything that you can imagine. Staff will be on hand and more than happy to mime gift wrapping your non existent (except in the mind) goods.


    Ive had this poster for the event printed.















    Pretty good isn't it ?

    You are all welcome including your friends, even if they are imaginary. 


    PaulBtassieguyBoudiccaSummer
  • PaulBPaulB mod
    @MichaelD can I get a printed brochure, so I don’t have to go?  The title of the show is what?  The Emperor’s New One Man Show?
    MichaelDBoudiccaBancroft414
  • Theree are some minimalist pieces out there that reflect a  certain amount of forethought and effort. And others that don't. mostly I think these are nothing more than pranks on art patrons and the public in general. I can imagine an artist or gallery owner laughing it up with his friends about how he sold a blank canvas to Park Avenue idiot for $1,000.
    tassieguyBancroft414HondoRW
  • Interestingly I just came across this on Reddit


    BobitalyMichaelDtoneliBOB73
  • From reading that, @Boudicca it seems that students who do these degrees learn a lot about certain ways of talking about art but little of the basic skills essential to producing art. Sad.
    Boudiccatoneli
  • Well thanks for your responses. Guess it’s not just me. I was just curious. LOL —-you guys are great.
    SummerKodiakwoodMichaelDBOB73
  • I’m just a new artist (or artiste) and maybe crude at that (but I did have enough crude intelligence to acquire two bachelors degrees- neither in art, though). But I agree with @tassieguy that the musical piece is definitely ritardando. I think calling 30 gray canvasses art is also ritardando. 
  • Having the audacity to hang thirty gray canvases could be respected but to listen to people explain why it is artistically relevant is beyond absurd. Rob was right about the BS but at least that could be used for fertilizer. The display of blank gray canvases was useless until the canvases are actually painted on again.
    jodie2025
  • edited July 7
    Minimalism is alive and well in Tasmania. Here's what won $20,000 for this year's Lloyd Rees Prize for the painting that best depicts "light in the landscape". 

    15,830 feet above the Great Lake
    Oil on board
    100 x 100cm



    I quite like the subtlety of this and it would definitely suit the interior raw concrete walls of my modern house.  However, it's hard for the traditional realist landscape painter to know what to do these days in terms of submitting work to these sorts of competitions. My pictures are selling. The public like them. And I made the finals of the Lloyd Rees Prize again this year. But the people from the art establishment who judge these things seem to always be looking for something 'edgy'. 

    I'm not criticizing this painting, I like it. I could probably have knocked it out in an afternoon if I'd had the nous to come up with the concept. But doing a painting like this would go against the grain for me and, frankly, wouldn't even occur to me. I guess I just have to soldier on, doing what I believe in, and hope that one day traditional  realism in landscape comes back into vogue with the establishment critics. Fortunately, there's a large segment of the public that will always love realism. That's one consolation I guess.   :/
    kaustavMjodie2025
  • edited July 7
    @tassieguy    I wish there was a sad button because I didn't want your reputation dinged here if pushed the angry looking button -   what a sad time in the art world if this won $20,000.00 for the absolute best "light in the landscape"...………  good Lord.  I can be open minded to people being creative but this is pushing my limits  - I just imagine the artists with intelligence, meaning, thoughtfulness, and intention losing to this insanity.  I honestly do not know how artists in the 1950s - 1990s  tolerated the gaslight.

    tassieguy
  • The value of the piece is in our conversation and our pondering. I love to hear what others say about art pieces.
  • @tassieguy, if this were realism for -this represents a canvas that is pre prepared for painting on - then I guess it would be spot on.

    When I look at it I am underwhelmed and can barely contain my indifference.                                                                
    tassieguy
  • This person has copied my idea 😂 
    Forgiveness
  • edited July 8
    To be honest, I have no feeling for it, so I just simply cannot relate. I often have similar challenge with abstract art.
     But I can say for certain that these blank canvases were much more interesting and fun to view in the late sixties and through much of the seventies with my friends back then with our mind expanding experiences and hallucinations if you know what I mean, hee, hee, hee.... Lol!
    tassieguy
  • To be honest, I have no feeling for it, so I just simply cannot relate. I often have similar challenge with abstract art.
     But I can say for certain that these blank canvases were much more interesting and fun to view in the late sixties and through much of the seventies with my friends back then with our mind expanding experiences and hallucinations if you know what I mean, hee, hee, hee.... Lol!
    Yes, drugs would help with this.....a lot.
    Forgiveness
  • It's beyond drugs..
    Forgiveness
  • SummerSummer -
    edited July 8
    Has anyone revealed their motivations behind/for producing these blank and seemingly empty masterpieces of music and art?  Could it be they are saying "Enough already!"  Could it be they have just become saturated with it all?  I'm trying to imagine investing decades in one of these careers and feeling this way.  One can't easily get out and on to something else so why not stay and just react to the situation in creative ways.  Hmm. 
    Forgiveness
  • tassieguy said:
    Minimalism is alive and well in Tasmania. Here's what won $20,000 for this year's Lloyd Rees Prize for the painting that best depicts "light in the landscape". 

    15,830 feet above the Great Lake
    Oil on board
    100 x 100cm



    My husband says he finds no fault with the artist.  The blame lies squarely on the judges.  Hmm.
    Julianna
  • Folks

    This is a very true, realistic and representative view of the lake in fog at that altitude.

    Denis

    JuliannaForgiveness
  • This is a fun thread.  There was a popular TV show about 20 years ago on HGTV called Trading Spaces. Each episode the host would drag a homeowner outside where they would take a collection of bits, bobs, paint and substrate, cobble it all together and place it proudly over the fireplace. It became the heirloom abstract masterpiece of the day and it fit the color scheme every time.  Thus proving, “anyone can do it “ and supplying some decorative art at the same time.  Recently I realized this is when the kid shouted out from the crowd, “he ain’t wearing no clothes,”  and abstract expressionism lost its relevance as an art form, no matter how hard the current set of critics try to prop it up.
    JuliannatassieguyForgiveness
  • Actually I really quite like the winning painting - conjured up images of a frosty winter Canberra morning with the morning light trying to break through the fog, I kind of get it. But the big news here of course is that Rob made the finalist list again (https://www.colvillegallery.com.au/artists/lloydrees_2019.php) - well done Rob!
    Forgiveness
  • edited July 9
    Thanks, @Roxy. I quite like the winning entry, too. It would look good in my house.

    I never expected to win but I was very pleased to be again selected as a finalist. Not winning won't stop me trying again next time. There are also two other big comps down here in Tassie - The Glover Prize is worth $50 grand and the Hadley Art Prize is worth $100 grand.  There's also the $20 grand Henry Jones Hotel prize. All well worth entering.  :)

    Bobitaly
  • Congrats @tassieguy, great once again!
  • Congrats @tassieguy , well deserved.  Is there a list of these contests somewhere?  I don't have a clue what is available.
  • Full disclosure...I didnt read through every post here...but I feel ya. The gallery I work with is super excited to represent this artist who sells these small 8x10s for $5,500!!! Wth! Haha when I spend days and weeks on a painting and am lucky to get that...yeah it stings a little...but man....good for him. I dont hate the player...hate the game. Haha gotta figure out his mad genius and how he mind bends people into paying it. Haha
    ForgivenessPaulBSummer
  • Can I have the name of the curator? I have some dirty clothes which are worth a fortune apparently;)
    ForgivenessJessicaArtSummer
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